Hey Guys

[TJSteel]

Hi everyone. I'm Jay and have been cubing for a fair few years now.. on and off but just started wanting to speed solve again.

My best time on my 3x3 is 27 seconds but I've only gotten that a couple of times. very rarely hit sub 30's so that's what I'm aiming for.

The method I've been using is a bit of a mix from beginner guides but seems to be way different to the beginner guides on here.

I do Cross, F2L, but then rotate edges, permute edges, rotate corners, permute corners.

I'm now trying to learn CFOP using 4LLL and improve my F2L (now averaging around 50s instead of 35 but once learned I should push into sub 30s)

 

[Fawn]

Hey! Welcome to the forums. Yeah, CFOP will definitely push your times back when you start, but the improvement is significant. Getting sub-30 from now shouldn't take too long if you practice.

 

[TomTom]

Welcome to the forums if you ever have questions, people are always willing to help, because we have always been in your spot. (im not too far off of your times)

 

[TJSteel]

The frustrating bit at the minute is getting to PLL and putting the corners in and then not being able to finish quick because I can't remember the algorithms to get the edges permuted quickly lol. I'll get there though.

Started doing F2L ages ago and still get stuck on some cases. the recognition seems to be the part slowing me down at F2L. I find it hard to practice F2L though because every solve is different and I might learn an algorithm but then never see that case again for a while.

Nice to talk to fellow cubers though. No-one else has a clue what I'm on about lol

 

[Randomno]

The frustrating bit at the minute is getting to PLL and putting the corners in and then not being able to finish quick because I can't remember the algorithms to get the edges permuted quickly lol. I'll get there though.

Started doing F2L ages ago and still get stuck on some cases. the recognition seems to be the part slowing me down at F2L. I find it hard to practice F2L though because every solve is different and I might learn an algorithm but then never see that case again for a while.

Nice to talk to fellow cubers though. No-one else has a clue what I'm on about lol

For OLL, learn the 7 cases from the cross pattern. Make sure you use f R U R' U f' (or similar, the one to get the third layer cross) when you have the L shape, it does it quicker.

Doing the T or Y perm works for CPLL, EPLL is pretty easy to recognise. H and Z are sometimes a pain to remember with all the M and U moves in different places, and the Ua and Ub are quite easy to do when you see a full bar (if you use the one starting with F2, that is).

 

[TJSteel]

For OLL, learn the 7 cases from the cross pattern. Make sure you use f R U R' U f' (or similar, the one to get the third layer cross) when you have the L shape, it does it quicker.

I've been using F U R U' R' F' with the L to rotate the edges on F and R and if I get the line instead I use F R U R' U' F' to rotate the edges on F and B.
I did see f R U R' U' f' and it could be a little quicker once my hands get used to doing f and f' moves. Never used and algorithms with double layer turns before and it feels a little weird, even doing d and d' during F2L feels odd instead of moving the whole cube.

Doing the T or Y perm works for CPLL

CPLL = Corner PLL?
I already knew A Perms so I've been using them for CPLL, if both back corners are paired I'd do R' F R' B2 R F' R' B2 R2 and because Y perm had too many moves to remember I was using a double A perm to cut down the amount of new algorithms to learn for the time being (R' F R' B2 R F' R' B2 R2) U (R' F R' B2 R F' R' B2 R2). Hadn't looked at T perms but the algorithms look pretty long.

EPLL is pretty easy to recognise. H and Z are sometimes a pain to remember with all the M and U moves in different places, and the Ua and Ub are quite easy to do when you see a full bar (if you use the one starting with F2, that is).

I already knew H which makes it a bit easier and Z isn't to different so picked that one up pretty quick. As for U perms I haven't fully remembered them well yet. I was using algorithms with the bar at the back and using R2 U R U R' U' R' U' R' U R' for Ub and that backwards for Ua.

I was using info from here to learn CFOP : http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/s...-to-Get-Faster-using-the-Fridrich-CFOP-Method

 

[TomTom]

T perm is actually incredibly simple, F R U' R' U R U R2 F' R U R U' R', and it goes very well with learning the Y perm, F R U' R U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R F', they are basically the same but the difference is the U and the U' on the fifth move, and then how you go about fixing it, but i learned those, and a few others in one day, they are really easy

 

[TJSteel]

T perm is actually incredibly simple, F R U' R' U R U R2 F' R U R U' R', and it goes very well with learning the Y perm, F R U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R F', they are basically the same but the difference is the U and the U' on the fifth move, and then how you go about fixing it, but i learned those, and a few others in one day, they are really easy

The 4th move on Y perm is R'

Thats the algorithm I have written down to learn for Y perm but haven't looked at T perms yet as I wouldn't really need it until I go for full PLL instead of 2 look PLL

How do you learn them that quickly? I tend to take a few days to learn a new one. also getting my hands in the right place to do the moves quickly can be hard to work out for some and they never feel right.

You say the 2 above are basically the same except move 5 but the rest of the algorithm is different too. Not sure I'm understanding right but you also say its then how you fix it? Do you mean you learn half of the algorithm in moves and learn the rest by seeing how the last part is put back together?

 

[Chree]

TomTom appears to be using the inverse of the standard T Perm alg. To each his own, I suppose... but I find this a lot easier and every video/tutorial/alg-set I've ever seen includes: R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' R U R' F'

As for how to learn algs? Basically, just doing them over and over again is how I learned. First by reading them off the page not really looking at the cube in my hand. Then seeing if I can do the first few moves without looking at the alg and looking at the cube instead. Then a little more, and a little more. And by then time I can do the whole thing I just practice it over and over again until it's locked in. Then a few hours or a day layer I'll see if I still remember it. It takes time, but it gets easier the more you learn to do it.

Edit: Here's how the T and Y perm are related.

The Y perm is a combination of 2 OLLs Strung Together:
F (R U' R' U' R U R') F' + (R U R' U')(R' F R F')

The T perm (as I wrote it) are those same 2 OLLs but reversed:
(R U R' U')(R' F R F') + F (R U' R' U' R U R') F'

But those 2 F's cancel out, and the 2 R's combine into an R2 to become R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' R U R' F'

The J Perm is also very related to the T Perm. You just move the last 4 moves to the front and it becomes R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U'

Looking for similarities between algs like this is also a good way to help learn them.

 

[RageCuber]

Welcome! I used to use that method (a long time ago) move out of it as fast as possible. I was slow for a long time cuz of it. Keep the cross and f2l part obviously

 

[TJSteel]

I've found some inverse algs easier like the A perms. I do one but then do it in reverse to spin the other way.
Also my OLL for the 3 corners are mirrored from each other

I've started filling up a notepad with algs and add new ones to it so I can refer back to it if I get stuck. I could then refer the Y and T perm to the oll perms

I have tried looking for similarities but its hard because I only know a few and there are tons of algs for each different case

 

[TJSteel]

I think that method was from the rubiks book but with a few extra algs learned and f2l added to it lol

 

[sneaklyfox]

Welcome!

 

[Chree]

The Aa Perm and Ab Perm are simply inverses of one another. One cycles the corners clockwise and the other counterclockwise. The same with Ua and Ub for edges, just inverses of one another.

There are also a lot of popular OLL algs that are simply inverses of other OLL algs. It's a great way to learn more than one case in a single sitting. I can dig up some examples if you like. If you want, here's a link to one of my favorite guides. It was my go-to source for new algs when I was trying to learn full OLL, and also has a lot of great PLL and F2L algs:
www.kungfoomanchu.com/guides/badmephistos-speedcubing-method-v2.pdf

There are lots of alternative sources for algs as well, like the wiki found in this forum. It's a long and exciting journey ahead of you

 

[TJSteel]

I used to have that guide actually. Think I'll get it printed out and keep it with my notes as there's a fair few on there I haven't already got

A list of similar algs would be handy if you have a list already. I normally do the moves on a solved cube too but it never seems to end up in a state that I recognise but it should once I get close starting full oll

 

[3LEVAS3]

Welcome Jay! I used that method as well before I got into CFOP

Happy cubing

L