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HD Method (2x2, alternative to CLL+)

Sue Doenim

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Nov 9, 2016
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446
I don't believe in the HD-G movecound of around 12 because Nlls are like 9 moves on average and it is lucky to get a 3 move orientation. That is not even including AUFs which are almost in every solve. There are 3 places where it is possible to have an AUF son i would say a more realistic movecount would be around 14-15.
I went through and actually did the math a while ago, and the average movecount I calculated, using the really old algs, was 13.53 moves. You can check out a post I made about it here. I feel like that's pretty much what the optimized movecount would look like. The only big problem with the method is how it doesn't have really good algs yet. Generating algs is hard.
 

Aerma

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Aerma
I'm interested in trying out HD again, after all this time - however I still don't really understand how to solve the V and orient all corners at the same time with HD-G. I'm looking at the spreadsheet linked in the post above me.
How do I change a few moves of the Guimond CO alg to preserve the V?
 

Sue Doenim

Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2016
Messages
446
Basically, you just do the Guimond alg, but a lot of the time you can cancel out of the alg in a way that gets you a V. When you can't, you just add a move or two to make the V's. There are a bunch of examples that I've done in the past in the 2×2 example solve thread, if you can be bothered to find them.
 

Zarxrax

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Jan 7, 2009
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North Carolina
I can't see any images on the sheet that contains the NLL algs
edit: some of them are showing now, some aren't, maybe server issue?
 
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Zarxrax

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For the HD-G variation, is there any good way to force the V other than just trying different starting positions and trying to invert the last move of the orientation algorithm? It seems like you could frquently get unlucky and not find an easy V during the limited inspection time.

Also is there a reason that the V separation case is used rather than one of the other cases? Was it just decided on because of this evolving from VOP or something, or is the V case statistically better for some reason?
 

Sue Doenim

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Nov 9, 2016
Messages
446
Basically, to make the V, you do orientation just like in Guimond, then you do R2/L2/F2/B2/U/D moves to make the V's. A lot of the time, the second part is done or it can just be cancelled into. It's pretty intuitive, with supplements from mini-algs from Guimond. V's pretty much ended up being the way it was done because of VOP, but I think they're also the most common case after CO.
 

Zarxrax

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Jan 7, 2009
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North Carolina
Basically, to make the V, you do orientation just like in Guimond, then you do R2/L2/F2/B2/U/D moves to make the V's. A lot of the time, the second part is done or it can just be cancelled into. It's pretty intuitive, with supplements from mini-algs from Guimond. V's pretty much ended up being the way it was done because of VOP, but I think they're also the most common case after CO.
I mean, I understand that I can just do extra moves after the orientation to make a V, but those extra moves would kill my ability to look ahead to predict the next step.

If there is no particular reason for the V case, I might do some more research into the other cases.

Update: I did 60 guimond solves and the V case came up 32 times, checkerboard/bar was 17 times, bar/bar and checkerboard/checkerboard were 5 each, and there was 1 skip. So the V case was indeed the most common, coming up about half of the time.
 
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Sue Doenim

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Nov 9, 2016
Messages
446
The pictures in the alg sheet aren't loading for me. Can you fix this?
I think maybe that there's some issue with the website that hosts the pictures. I would just look at the written case descriptions. With the D-layer corner in the UBL position, you can either have a bar on F, a bar on R, a bar on both (solved), opposite on F, opposite on R, or opposite on both (diagonal).
 

Zarxrax

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Jan 7, 2009
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Location
North Carolina
I think maybe that there's some issue with the website that hosts the pictures.
You should save the pictures to files and import those into the spreadsheet, so its not having to generate images on that server every time. Or if you split the NLL up into 2 or 3 different pages so its not trying to load them all at once, that might help too.
 

Sue Doenim

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Nov 9, 2016
Messages
446
I don't have editing access to the sheet, so I can't change it. At any rate, I don't think it makes a big difference. Recognition is pretty simple, as long as you remember that the D-layer corner is in the UBL spot.
 
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