Fresh Cuber

[pcharles93]

For one day, everyone should post in their native tongue on this forum. Unless your native tongue is English, that's kinda boring; I wanna see how many languages the members of this forum know combined.

 

[blah]

For one day, everyone should post in their native tongue on this forum. Unless your native tongue is English, that's kinda boring; I wanna see how many languages the members of this forum know combined.

Done. Check out the off-topic subforum.

 

[Rabid]

I know this is an English forum, but if no one understands the question(s) and the guy who started the thread doesn't understand anyone, then there really isn't any point.

I’m clear. I’m sure everyone would understand my questions; I tend to end them with question marks.

But you may have to read subtext..
The community is walled off. I am avidly savvy enough to aggressively search for the information I crave. But I’m stalled at the moat without a canoe. I can’t for the life of me find any comprehensible algs for the LL (specifically Niklas and other post Petrus solves). All I get are reams of useless incoherent diagrams with jumbled turn sequences. If your community doesn’t start fleshing a logical and comprehensive codified system (like chess) your growth will be stymied.
On the plus side, it’s easier to shine when fewer stars are in the sky.

 

[yurivish]

Seriously, what translator are you using?

Also, there are some algorithms at http://users.telenet.be/uxs/rubik/ and http://lar5.com/cube/fas5.html.

The "jumbled turn sequences" are in fact the "codified system", and the diagrams are hardly useless. Once you get used to the notation it's easy to read. Also, the first page I linked to has pictures of which slice to turn instead of the standard letters.

 

[Rabid]

Seriously, what translator are you using?

Also, there are some algorithms at http://users.telenet.be/uxs/rubik/ and http://lar5.com/cube/fas5.html.

The "jumbled turn sequences" are in fact the "codified system", and the diagrams are hardly useless. Once you get used to the notation it's easy to read. Also, the first page I linked to has pictures of which slice to turn instead of the standard letters.

I don't use a translator. Seriously.

Your links actually prove my point. Visual demonstrations are fine if you’re sitting at a PC cube-in-hand, but rubbish everywhere else. I used Lars’ site to grasp the F2L, and it works just fine because it’s all heuristics. His site doesn’t contain any actual algs (or they're so buried I can’t fresh them). Your other site recommendation (users.telenet) is equally enigmatic. The visual format is only practical while staring at the screen.

I’m not bashing your systems, but I think it needs to evolve to serve. That’s not an insult. Chess notation was mired in clunky descriptive notation for hundreds of year before it evolved into the (relatively recent) algebraic notation.

 

[yurivish]

Oh, sorry for assuming you used one. I don't know if you mentioned that you didn't earlier in the thread, but there was discussion about you using one, so I assumed you did. My apologies!

I don't know anything about chess's notation, so I'm not really sure what you would consider to be a good step forwards. Could you elaborate?

 

[Rabid]

I don't know anything about chess's notation, so I'm not really sure what you would consider to be a good step forwards. Could you elaborate?

I won't even begin to think I have a magical notation for cubing. I'm just comparing it to chess. The old-school descriptive chess notation named each piece in relation to its compatriots.
N-QB3 (knight to queen's bishop 3)
The problem being each side labeled every square twice, with a mirror dual square for the other color.
The modern algebraic system has a simple Number/Letter axis for every move. Every square has one designation regardless of orientation.

Cubes are a tough nut. The orientation shifts depending on grip and the color schemes are variable. To me the apostrophe is an awkward designation for counter clockwise. It reads perfectly in print, but is stilted when auditory (and a great many tutorials seem to be video).
It’s hard to progress a craft with inferior language.

 

[ShadenSmith]

Color schemes do not affect the notation of the cube. As long as your cube has 6 faces that turn clockwise and counter-clockwise, the notation will work.

 

[yurivish]

I don't know the origin of the current standard notation, but the apostrophe stems, I believe, from math.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_(symbol) – In mathematics, the prime is generally used to generate more variable names for things which are similar, without resorting to subscripts—x′ generally means something related to x. For example, if a point is represented by the Cartesian coordinates (x, y), then that point rotated, translated or reflected might be represented as (x′, y′).

Usually if someone is telling you about an algorithm in person or on a video, they can show you the moves on a cube. I don't know of any solely auditory Rubik's cube tutorials.

 

[Rabid]

Color schemes do not affect the notation of the cube. As long as your cube has 6 faces that turn clockwise and counter-clockwise, the notation will work.

The current notation works; as long as you hold the cube in the prescribed position. I was positing alternatives and their potential flaws. If cubes had standard colors it might be possible to notate without compass orientation.
G1, B, R2 (green counter-clockwise, blue clockwise, red two turns)

Usually if someone is telling you about an algorithm in person or on a video, they can show you the moves on a cube. I don't know of any solely auditory Rubik's cube tutorials.

Try that on the bus..
I think you've (once again) proven my point.

Here's a thought experiment:
It should be possible to blind solve without a cube-in-hand.


Here's a question. Why isn't counter-clockwise simply denoted with a 1?

 

[ShadenSmith]

Color schemes do not affect the notation of the cube. As long as your cube has 6 faces that turn clockwise and counter-clockwise, the notation will work.

The current notation works; as long as you hold the cube in the prescribed position. I was positing alternatives and their potential flaws. If cubes had standard colors it might be possible to notate without compass orientation.
G1, B, R2 (green counter-clockwise, blue clockwise, red two turns)

You won't always perform an algorithm in the same place, so that notation is useless. Not to mention that many people use different color schemes. Try notating an algorithm and use that on Mr. Hughey's cubes

 

[pcharles93]

Color schemes do not affect the notation of the cube. As long as your cube has 6 faces that turn clockwise and counter-clockwise, the notation will work.

The current notation works; as long as you hold the cube in the prescribed position. I was positing alternatives and their potential flaws. If cubes had standard colors it might be possible to notate without compass orientation.
G1, B, R2 (green counter-clockwise, blue clockwise, red two turns)

Usually if someone is telling you about an algorithm in person or on a video, they can show you the moves on a cube. I don't know of any solely auditory Rubik's cube tutorials.

Try that on the bus..
I think you've (once again) proven my point.

Here's a thought experiment:
It should be possible to blind solve without a cube-in-hand.


Here's a question. Why isn't counter-clockwise simply denoted with a 1?

Just get used to the notation used by 99.99% of all cubers. Damn those people who use an arrow with 2 solid lines. You can't do a B or F turn with that notation. I don't know why I don't like using notation that uses color. If you use 1 cross color, then you'd have to learn 4 algorithms. A lot more if you're color neutral. Blindsolving without a cube in hand? Ryan Heise's simulator. Counterclockwise turns denoted with 1's? Clockwise turns with 3's next? You can't use numbers for everything. Big cube notation also uses superscript, so you have RDULFB, w, 2, 1, 3, and rdlfub, and superscript numbers also?

 

[pcharles93]

Color schemes do not affect the notation of the cube. As long as your cube has 6 faces that turn clockwise and counter-clockwise, the notation will work.

The current notation works; as long as you hold the cube in the prescribed position. I was positing alternatives and their potential flaws. If cubes had standard colors it might be possible to notate without compass orientation.
G1, B, R2 (green counter-clockwise, blue clockwise, red two turns)

You won't always perform an algorithm in the same place, so that notation is useless. Not to mention that many people use different color schemes. Try notating an algorithm and use that on Mr. Hughey's cubes

Or an Icon cube

 

[MistArts]

Rabid。你可以打中文吗？

 

[Rabid]

Just get used to the notation used by 99.99% of all cubers. Damn those people who use an arrow with 2 solid lines. You can't do a B or F turn with that notation. I don't know why I don't like using notation that uses color. If you use 1 cross color, then you'd have to learn 4 algorithms. ..Counterclockwise turns denoted with 1's? Clockwise turns with 3's next? You can't use numbers for everything.

I’ll reiterate. I do not have a clear concept for a superior notation, but I believe the current one is obtuse. The color example was merely an example. Clockwise turns would have no number of course. Why does 1/3rd of the notation have numbers and the others nothing and a punctuation? Admit it’s inconsistent. It’s not a matter of just “learn it”. I’m fully capable of getting used to it. (I think I already have). But admit that it is imperfect (maybe flawed even).

Here’s a case study. I want the alg for a Niklas, one of the most used and useful algs in cubing (maybe just Petrus, give me rope) and yet the notation can’t be found (or maybe I just fail). I’m reduced to transcribing it by hand, one turn at a time, so I can refer to it on the bus for practice. I’ve managed to mangle half a sheet of paper with arcane glyphs. Very very wrong. And I'm more tenacious than most.

 

[yurivish]

--------------------------

 

[ShadenSmith]

I perform Niklas as R U' L' U R' U' L (you can throw in a U2 at the end as an AUF).

 

[pcharles93]

Just get used to the notation used by 99.99% of all cubers. Damn those people who use an arrow with 2 solid lines. You can't do a B or F turn with that notation. I don't know why I don't like using notation that uses color. If you use 1 cross color, then you'd have to learn 4 algorithms. ..Counterclockwise turns denoted with 1's? Clockwise turns with 3's next? You can't use numbers for everything.

I’ll reiterate. I do not have a clear concept for a superior notation, but I believe the current one is obtuse. The color example was merely an example. Clockwise turns would have no number of course. Why does 1/3rd of the notation have numbers and the others nothing and a punctuation? Admit it’s inconsistent. It’s not a matter of just “learn it”. I’m fully capable of getting used to it. (I think I already have). But admit that it is imperfect (maybe flawed even).

Here’s a case study. I want the alg for a Niklas, one of the most used and useful algs in cubing (maybe just Petrus, give me rope) and yet the notation can’t be found (or maybe I just fail). I’m reduced to transcribing it by hand, one turn at a time, so I can refer to it on the bus for practice. I’ve managed to mangle half a sheet of paper with arcane glyphs. Very very wrong. And I'm more tenacious than most.

This is ridiculous. If you can't read your own handwriting, is it the notation's fault? It's your own fault if you can't distinguish letters from prime markings and numbers.

 

[Rabid]

This is ridiculous. If you can't read your own handwriting, is it the notation's fault? It's your own fault if you can't distinguish letters from prime markings and numbers.

The Prime markings are superfluous. Why not just have use a 1?

 

[pcharles93]

This is ridiculous. If you can't read your own handwriting, is it the notation's fault? It's your own fault if you can't distinguish letters from prime markings and numbers.

The Prime markings are superfluous. Why not just have use a 1?

They aren't superfluous. You kinda need them to communicate counterclockwise turns.