Europe 2008

[rxdeath]

hmmm. well i know all those words but i've never seen them in that order before. maybe you could relay your position to someone with stronger english skills, and have them post for you. i don't know what you're saying here, i caught the martian part, and that's so silly i won't bother responding except to say, when martians show up would be the time i start thinking about this. also, i assume they would acutally be different that us, so the comparison doesn't hold as it does to all human beings with the same genetic makeup

ps -- shelly is a ms

 

[nicoJ]

i said martians because i have nothing against americans, and i dont want to name them in my comparations

 

[shelley]

mr shelley: if you get a prize for posting lots of posts in the same thread, thank to erik that was who created it

First of all, Mr?

Second, why are you singling me out? Have I expressed any sort of irrelevant desire to have many posts in one thread? Besides, Tyson, Clancy and Erik himself have posted more than I have. Post count, by the way, was a separate argument that has already taken place elsewhere in this forum and we don't need any of that here.

 

[Tyson]

I guess what I'm also trying to say is that if this is a problem, then maybe there shouldn't be a limit to how many people can sign up for an event. This limit of N people can sign up for Event X causes similar problems, irregardless on the open or closed status of the competition.

The problem is that these categories will be the same day that the qualification round of other puzzles so if you want to add a qualification round for it you should use the previous day???. The best option is qualification round for these events, of course, but maybe there is not enough time. Maybe there will be a problem irregardless on the open or closed status, but foreign participation can be an extra problem here.

Anycase, my opinion about an open or closed championship is independent of this problem. It is only one more point.

I understand that, but I'm trying to show that this tournament could be arranged in such a way that your primary concerns are addressed.

 

[Gprano]

I don't think qualifications rounds for the big blinds events are good ideas, because that's very long, and there is many DNF. (and the final is best of 2 too)
The way would be to accept more competitors in the final, but that need time too...

I think this topic begin to be annoying, the opinions are the same since 35 pages and everybody understood them.

Sorry for the bad english

 

[Tyson]

I don't think qualifications rounds for the big blinds events are good ideas, because that's very long, and there is many DNF. (and the final is best of 2 too)
The way would be to accept more competitors in the final, but that need time too...

I think this topic begin to be annoying, the opinions are the same since 35 pages and everybody understood them.

Sorry for the bad english

Hi Gprano,

I agree. For big cube BLD events, I'm not sure why there needs to be qualification. Furthermore, I think it's an event where you can put all the competitors in a room, and judge them all at the same time. I don't think running the event with 5 people and running the event with 20 people takes four times the number of resources, likely, it's maybe just an extra person or so.

I don't know why they have limits on big cube BLD. I feel that if I were organizing this competition, I would be able to accommodate everyone for this event, but then again, I don't know how the organizing team is doing so. Maybe they have a reason for this restriction.

 

[Gprano]

For the number of persons, that's maybe because with the new rules (since MK...) you need a judge to hold the paper for each person.

 

[bamilan]

Sorry for misunderstanding :S
I am not really interested in the prize money, but I don't want to tell to the TVs that I am the european champion, but I could not reach the final...(I won't be a european champion).

I am really sorry for my opinion to non-european speedcubers. But you should understand me (us)


Milan

 

[Tyson]

Milan, what is the probability that not a single European makes it into the final as a result of foreign competition? If you want to bet on this, make me a market.

This situation you propose is very unlikely to the point that it is near impossible. I've got some good money I'd put up on this one if you want. Make me a market on the odds that you would be willing to bet with.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_maker

I will play in EUR or HUF. Whatever you want.

Milan, I understand you. And I know you are a talented cuber, but your post really reflects some very shallow thinking. Honestly, is this 'problem' that you bring up have even the remotest of probabilities of happening?

 

[Mike Hughey]

For the number of persons, that's maybe because with the new rules (since MK...) you need a judge to hold the paper for each person.

You may instead use a stand or other object to block the cube:

B4c) During the full solve the judge must keep a sheet of paper or a similar object between the competitor's face and the puzzle, unless the puzzle is in a position where peeking at the puzzle is not possible.

We used ordinary music stands for this in Chattahoochee (they qualify as "a similar object"), and it worked great! No need for everyone to have someone holding a piece of paper during the solve. For me the hard part here is manning all the stopwatches.

 

[Worms]

Milan, what is the probability that not a single European makes it into the final as a result of foreign competition?

Ok, now is not probable, but can you assure that in 10 year the TOP50 are not all non-european?? this will be a big problem, all european eliminated in the first round

 

[Tyson]

Milan, what is the probability that not a single European makes it into the final as a result of foreign competition?

Ok, now is not probable, but can you assure that in 10 year the TOP50 are not all non-european?? this will be a big problem, all european eliminated in the first round

Do you really lack that much confidence in Europeans?

If this were actually a problem, again, it's nothing more than just a mental process to separate in your heads. The final round would really be the round before all the Europeans got knocked out. The round after that is really just to discern the foreigners, who in your mind, will be crushing all the Europeans in 10 years. I find this impossible. Europe has some of the most talented cubers in the world.

But... look how silly your line of reasoning has gotten. You really believe in 10 years, there won't be a single European in the top 50 of cubing? Do you really believe this? Again, if you do, let's bet money. I make a living off of people who mis-value things and probabilities.

 

[rubikaz]

I don't know why they have limits on big cube BLD. I feel that if I were organizing this competition, I would be able to accommodate everyone for this event, but then again, I don't know how the organizing team is doing so. Maybe they have a reason for this restriction.

I think that they are going to accept everyone but since they don't know how many competitors will register they want to be cautious.

 

[Tyson]

I think for the most part, people are making honest attempts at this. In the United States, we do have one competitor who I don't allow to compete in anything but 3x3x3 speed solve because he can't BLD solve and gets up and wastes 10 minutes on the timers.

Even so, I think you could still run it... unless 80 competitors sign up for 4x4x4 BLD, you will be fine. And if they do, well, you'll have more time because all these people will miss other aspects of the competition.

It's a real jerk thing to do... if you try 4x4x4 BLD for the first time in competition without spending effort on it at home.

 

[shelley]

Hey, idea. I see that a lot of Europeans are still insistent on a closed European Championship. Not much we can do about this one now that it's open, but future championships can be open only to people who have qualified at a national level competition in Europe earlier that year. So for instance the French Open and the Dutch Open and the German Open and all the other national level competitions can send x of their top cubers to the European Championships, and x can be as big or small as you like. As the years go by and cubing continues to grow in popularity, this would also help keep big competitions manageable.

That way the European Championships can actually be a championship event rather than just a competition that's larger than usual and arbitrarily called the European Championships. And you can have your closed competition, but it will be closed based on merit and not citizenship, which is something I think people would be more inclined to respect.

 

[Erik]

Hey, idea. I see that a lot of Europeans are still insistent on a closed European Championship. Not much we can do about this one now that it's open

This is not true I think since it was originally a closed competition untill a few days ago, if it can be changed that easy, it's no problem to change it back. (which is made clear now, most Europeans really want to have!!!!!!!!!)

@ Shelley, your idea for the future is nice, I support it. Only how are we going to get rid of the fact that it's easier to qualify being a cuber from Lichtenstein than it is to be from Holland or America or Japan?

 

[Tim Reynolds]

I like Shelley's idea. Maybe, though, as a variation, say that the top 40 (or any other number, but not too huge) people who get 3x3 averages in any competition in Europe between the last European Championship and this one qualify for 3x3. The side events have similar qualification procedures--the top x people who got averages (or single in bld) since the last European Championship qualify. It is very possible to qualify in a side event but not 3x3.

Something similar could be implemented for Worlds, and maybe various nationals as well.

 

[rxdeath]

yes but the organizers agree this is better regardless of whoever's personal desires, so i'd be surprised if it was changed back. also, i haven't heard all of europe say they hate, i see as many serious people against as there are serious people for it, so i don't think you're qualified to make broad statements and speak for the whole EU.

i would support it if competitions were closed based on personal abilities, but that's it. the only reason i feel this is fair is because everyone has the opportunity to qualify, but i don't know if this will make up for the fact that no geographic region should have its own closed tourney and not allow others to compete, any person should have the right to compete in any european championship or american, french, spanish, etc.. so i don't know how a foreigner would 'qualify' for the european championships.

 

[TobiasDaneels]

I'm (as a European cuber) quite neutral in the discussion wether it has to be open or closed. I can't but feeling we should allow people to organise closed competitions but I won't mind charing EC 2008 with non-european cubers as it would be a rare chance to meet these guys.

I do have an oponion about wether by who and for what reasons this discussion should be held, but I'd love to discuss this in a bar in Bilbao, with the main caractars in this 'who's right, who's wrong battle', while sharing a beer (Mahou, Estrella, San Miguel,...). And I am definitly willing to change my mind if I feel someone else has better arguments about this.

I hope to see as many of you guys as possible in Bilbao, both European and non-European. But for those who are willing to come, I'd suggest to enroll as fast as possible, since there are allready 70 competitors registered.

Greetings from Brussels, Belgium, Europe.

 

[rxdeath]

good show tobias, i think you showed both sides a good example. ....well i don't drink, but i would gladly make an exception share a beer with these gentlemen who i've shared a battle of opinions with. hell if i even actually make it, i hope edouard, erik, arnaud, rama, and rubikaz will let me buy them the first round .