Earth Hour 2008

[Erik]

Ah yes I finally reply too in this thread.
I'm studyin environmental things but not at this high 'level' of global problems, more like companies who are not applying to the rules they should or smaller problems regarding water management or ecological problems, all within a scale of some square miles so far
But that doesn't mean we (me and my classmates) don't think about this biiiiig problem too. This is a great initiative and I'll talk about it to my one of my teachers, of course it doesn't REALLY help the global warming at all because it's only one hour and candles and stuff also emit CO2 which is again one of the things that get blamed for the problem in the first place. HOWEVER, it's a good initiative to get attention to this problem so I'll encourage everyone to join!

The real cause of this problem (lets assume it's caused by human lifestyle) is the way people tread the environment these days. Actually it's maybe not even that but there are so MANY people nowadays. A non-realistic solution would be to do things like the one-child policy (only applied more mild) since less people-> less cars/less energy needed/less oil needed/less space needed/less nature needed = good
Of course such a worldwide policy is very very hard to make. More realistic would be to get all people more concious and buy that more expensive lightbolt which needs less power and buy that CAR which doesn't do 5 km to a liter of gasoline (like most american cars ) but buy a maybe more expensive but more efficient car which does 15 km to a liter of gasoline, it will even save you money after some time
Enjoy!
Edit: or indeed get a bike and use it for those small bits of course you can think up numerous other tricks

 

[Dene]

has no one seen the Al Gore movie An Inconvenient Truth ?

No they haven't, it turns out that, when you don't live in America, you don't pay any attention to the people in it (excpet, of course, when they intrude in other countries). I doubt many people have seen the movie, because we don't all worship Al Gore or his views.

Cerberus: Such a comparison is so stupid it is crazy. It's like saying, the more ice creams we eat, the more likely we are to drown. Sure, there is a strong correlation, but it has nothing to do with eating ice creams, more likely to be to do with the fact that we eat ice creams in summer, and we go swimming more in summer (and thus, drown more in summer).

Abbracadiabra: I really don't see the point in energy conservation. As a person who is extremely interested in physics, I know one of the most fundamental laws of physics: energy is neither created nor detroyed. Whatever we use, we can get back. Turning off all the lights for an hour may have an effect in the cities who are doing it, but nowhere else. It would also depend on the population of the cities and the amount of big businesses open at that time. The funny thing is, that it achieves the exact goal that energy companies don't want, yet they encourage it . Image is everything, but they're destroying their own businesses.

One of these effects is people realizing we are using to many resources and doing something about it like Earth Hour. I agree it is a small start that will be more symbolical than actually useful, but you and me discussing is already proving it's point.

The problem is, are we really using too many resources? We have to survive, would you rather we did so in a primitive state, or modern state? Survival of the fittest, if you want to go back to the pleistocene, you're dead.

That natural cycle exists, but if you analyze the rate of temperature changes in the past and right now you would understand that this ISN'T so long away anymore. The industrial era only started about a century ago (let's not try to be to precise), and currently only a limited portion of the human race is living "a western/modern" life-style. Already the effects are noticable and influence nature a lot. Imagine if/when giants like China and India adopt the same life-style and resource-use.

Perhaps, but if you recall back 50 years ago, there was fear of a global "cooling". They thought all the crops would die from the cold and we'd all be doomed. What happened to that? I don't trust any of their temperature analyses.

Yeah, that is kind of the definition, but you didn't answer the question. What should we prepare future generations for?

Well I did mention space travel. Or else, simply nothing. There is nothing we can do. If there is a population boom, either you tell people to stop reproducing (of which, I am doing my part ), or you can't do anything.

That is 37% in the 2 biggest countries and "only" 12% in the next 2 biggest "countries". I don't know how many resources those 12% use, but I guess it will be at least 50%.

Yes I am already aware of all these stats. I think it is clear that there is only one target country. The one that is wasting billions on a war that shouldn't exist.

Please read something like this, that is the whole reason this topic exists.

Perhaps, but I disagree with this theory, it is very reductionist, in that it puts all the weight on food. There are so many other factors that will effect a rise in population.

P.S. space travel is a nice option, but not very realistic at the moment. Consider how many resources it takes to put some robot on a planet a few "galactic houses" away from us it isn't very useful yet.

Which is why more effort needs to be put into this.

EDIT: sorry for the long post, but I just saw Erik's so I'll add: Or get a bike!

 

[AvGalen]

Dene, I have to say you don't make a lot of sense.

Yes I am already aware of all these stats. I think it is clear that there is only one target country. The one that is wasting billions on a war that shouldn't exist.

I am pointing out that right now there are two "countries" (12%) that are very big polutors because of there life-style, but that it will be 4 "countries (48%) in the near future. You reduce it to 1 country (<8%) and add something about a war. And your talk about space travel is just sci-fi without realism.
and you ignore the problems.

 

[Dene]

I can only see one country that is really burning through resources at the moment (America) and at the same time they are spending billions on a war instead of doing something about it. As for China, I don't think they will be a problem, as they are going to great lengths to clean things up for the Olympics and are showing that they can deal with any problems.
As for space travel, I don't think it is nearly as unrealistic as the idea that people can STOP "climate change." If more money was put into it, it could be done.
As for ignoring the problems, I'm not quite sure what you mean, but I think I already said that there isn't really a problem, or at least there's nothing that we can fix.

 

[McWizzle94]

As for space travel, I don't think it is nearly as unrealistic as the idea that people can STOP "climate change."

maybe we cant stop climate change, but we can slow it down

 

[Arget]

I can only see one country that is really burning through resources at the moment (America) and at the same time they are spending billions on a war instead of doing something about it. As for China, I don't think they will be a problem, as they are going to great lengths to clean things up for the Olympics and are showing that they can deal with any problems.

That's really funny considering that the United States AND China are among the most pollutant countries in the world and you say that China is not going to be a problem. Yes, the USA is of course the largest cause of the issue, however, other major countries such as China and countries. However, this is not a matter of which country is hurting the environment the most. It is a GLOBAL issue. We cannot have one control blaming another and telling them to fix up the problems with the environment. In order to achieve the 7th goal in the Millenium Development Goals, which currently we are in no possible way going to accomplish by 2015, we need to come together as a united global body to face the issue. The ignorance expressed by the USA and other countries to work on the issue is what is causing the problems. Individuals have begun to step out and make themselves heard but at the rate that this is ocurring, it is nothing. What the world needs now is unity. If countries are to continue to blame one another for the current condition of the environment, then there will be no step forward that is taken and no initiative set in place. Without unity, the problem will grow and universally lead to much greater problems.

 

[Dene]

What are the Millenium Developmental Goals? I have never heard of them. As for unity, it will never happen, you're wasting your time even considering it.

 

[36duong]

Uh, I hate such typical American dribble. Did you hear his voice? Seriously? How could you make something sound so melodramatic? And, like a typical American, he has no idea how to pronounce "Melbourne" or "Brisbane". This sort of video makes me sick.
I for one will not contribute to such a wasteful cause either. Global warming, if it is even real, is a part of the Earth's natural cycle of Ice Age/Draught. If anybody thinks they can stop it, they have another thing coming.

I agree with the first point but disagree with the second. Global Warming is something that is caused by humans, but I am very doubtful that it is going to be fixed by humans, money rules supreme over the environment

 

[AvGalen]

Dene: I don't think you have any idea of what you are talking about. Saying only the USA is a big polluter is so besides the truth that it is no use continuing in detailed arguments. http://www.grist.org/news/daily/2007/06/20/1/ And China's economical growth is much faster than that of the USA (as I have mentioned several times before). Also, China is much less worried about pollution compared to the USA (which is already not so worried).
It seems you think "America is doing all the harm, we cannot stop it, let's escape to another planet"


Also: Use google and you will find http://www.un.org/millenniumgoals/ as the first hit. Main point 7 has this item:

Integrate the principles of sustainable development into country policies and programmes; reverse loss of environmental resources

 

[Dene]

LMAO, I just read the first goal in their list and realised that reading the rest would be pointless. What a complete load of crap "erradicate all extreme hunger and poverty". And how the hell do they intend to achieve something so absurd? Do they not realise that over half of the entire population is in such a state? They are insane. As far as I'm concerned, the only way to achieve that would be to KILL everyone in "extreme poverty". And then, they poverty line would just move up. There is no way everyone could be equally nourished, thus the poverty line will just move up.
As for your first article, it is mere speculation. I do understand that China is chugging crap into the atmosphere, but you're wasting your time if you think they're going to care. They're trying to clean up a bit for the Olympics, but other than that, China will do as she pleases. America is the problem country, if they are so intent on fixing it, then why aren't they doing anything? If you take a look at some of the crap that we have planned here in New Zealand (which might i point out is the LEADING country in reducing carbon emissions) you would see it isn't that hard.

 

[abbracadiabra]

Well then Dene, I think we could all take a lesson from New Zealand.

The fact that a goal is hard to attain doesn't mean we shouldn't attempt to try. And I don't think it's reasonable to give up because others aren't on board. You have to start somewhere, and that somewhere might as well be with ourselves as individuals. In my home I've made an effort to be environmentally conscious. We recycle. I've switched to low energy light fixtures all around the house. I'm careful about the chemicals we use for cleaning. And I drive a fuel efficient vehichle. I realize that my efforts aren't going to make a tinkers damn worth of difference in the big picture, but if everyone made an effort I think we could do a better job of protecting the environment we're leaving behind for our children and grandchildren. And I can't expect anyone else to make an effort unless I do so myself.

As for eradicating extreme hunger and poverty - I think we all have a responsibility to those who are less fortunate than ourselves. Maybe you're right and we can't eradicate it. But perhaps we can reduce it, and that in and of itself is a worthy goal.

 

[Dene]

"We recycle"

That, I must admit, I find extremely funny. The impression I get from your clear statement (a mere two word sentence!) is that it isn't common in America to recycle!! Which is something that I was brought up with, something that is the norm here in New Zealand! This is irrelevant though, of course.

I agree, sure we should be helping those less fortunate, but it isn't going to achieved in a capatalist dominated world. There isn't any point even trying, too few people have all the money.

 

[abbracadiabra]

You're right- everyone should recycle. But it is not done in every home here. I wish it was. Like I said - you've got to start somewhere, and that somewhere has to be with ourselves as individuals. Also, like I said, we could afford to take a lesson from you. I'm glad to hear you are so environmentally conscious in New Zealand, and my hope is that we Americans could learn from our friends and neighbors around the world and follow suit.

Don't think we're all so arrogant, Dene. We're all human beings; we're no different than you.

 

[Dene]

I don't quite understand, who do I think is arrogant? If you mean American's, then yes, I have a strong dislike of the race in general, and take an anti-American stance at all times. This of course, doesn't work the same with individual cases. I know plenty of "good" American's, in the sense that I have no problem with them, but in general, a country that could twice elect such an idiot into presidency just doesn't strike me as a good country at all.

 

[36duong]

Global Warming is a big threat, It will take a lot of resources to put a billion people in China into 1st world living standards. Australia is in the middle of a mining boom because of China and India purchasing so much of our resources. People aren't going to let billions of dollars slip for the "environment." The earth is most certainly doomed so why worry in the first place? Slow it? yes. Stop it? no. It'd like burning money to let our current mining boom stop.