Cross, F2L, 2 look oll and 2 look pll, sorry long post

[josmil1]

Help with Cross, F2L, 2 look oll and 2 look pll

Hey guys, I've been getting serious with speedcubing but so far my goal is to get to 35-40 seconds on average consistently before moving on to anything lower or more serious. So i've been doing a lot of research and I have read through a lot of guides on how to get faster. I am currently using f2l intuitive, 2 look oll and 2 look pll. I only know 10 pll's. I have averaged all my times with cross, f2l, 2 look oll and 2 look pll separately and my average is about 51 seconds in total. In my fastest time combined from each section is about 39 seconds.

I have been trying to get faster for the past 3 months but I have yet to see any improvement since getting my times from LBL(1:15 average) to 50 second averages using f2l, 2 look pll and 2 look oll. I tried metronome but it's just really annoying. I know most of you will say slow down and look ahead for F2L and to practice a lot. F2l obviously is my weakest point. So i am working on that. My point of concern is the 2 look olls and plls that im using. Im not sure which is faster or better. Another concern is that I am horrible with finger tricks which is why most of the algorithms are R's and U's since im most comfortable with them. Is it just me or are some of the pll's and oll's that i use too long? or take too long to perform? I can't get under 6 seconds in performing each. What is your opinion on the algorithms that I am using? Any tips on improving or getting better with finger tricks? Should learning all Plls get me under 40 seconds? Any other tips on improving? Thank you for your help, sorry for the long post.

I am using a White Type A diy cube
Averages:
Cross - 6.16
F2L - 25.47
2 look OLL - 9.31
2 Look PLL - 10.54

Algorithms I'm debating on using or that need change? which of those is faster?

OLL
1. Headlights - (R U R' U') (R U' R' U2) (R U' R' U2) R U R' - headlights on left
(R U' L U') (R' U L' U2) (R U' R') - headlights in front

2. Chameleon - (r U R' U') (r' F R F') - yellow on the left

3. Cross Symmetric - (R U R' U) (R U' R' U) (R U2 R') or,
(R' U' R) U' (R' U R) U' (R' U2 R)


4. Diagonals - F' (r U R' U') r' F R or,
R U2 R' U' (R U R' U') (R U R' U') R U' R'

PLL
1. E - x' [(R U' R') D (R U R')] u2 [(R' U R) D (R' U' R)] or
x (U R' U' L) (U R U' L') (U R U' L) (U R' U' r') or,

2. Z - (U2 R U R') (U R' U' R') (U R U' R') (U' R2 U R) or,
(U R' U' R) (U' R U R) (U' R' U R) (U R2 U' R') U or,
(R' U' R U') (R U R U') (R' U R U) (R2 U' R' U2) or,
(R U R' U) (R' U' R' U) (R U' R' U') (R2 U R U2)

3. H - (R2 U2 R U2) (R2 U2 R2 U2) (R U2 R2)

4. V - (R U' L' U R') (U' R U' L) (U R' U2 L') (U2 L) or,
(L' U R U' L) (U L' U R' U') (L U2 R U2 R')

 

[andrewunz1]

1st of all are you using a diy cube
and go to this site it has some better algs http://badmephisto.com/
some are the same

 

[R3V34L]

I'm at about the same place, can consistently get about 44 seconds with F2l 4LLL, but I tend to do the Last Layer somewhat faster than that. I take about 5 seconds for OLL and about 4 for PLL.

Perhaps working on recognition times for the last layer?

 

[josmil1]

well I can recognize the oll's and pll's perfectly i just feel with the times im averaging, the problem could be the execution of them? That's why i posted the algorithms that I use. I only use those because im most comfortable with those than any others. I feel the ones from badmephisto's page are slower for me to execute than the ones i use.

 

[*LukeMayn*]

well I can recognize the oll's and pll's perfectly i just feel with the times im averaging, the problem could be the execution of them? That's why i posted the algorithms that I use. I only use those because im most comfortable with those than any others. I feel the ones from badmephisto's page are slower for me to execute than the ones i use.

turn faster?

best algs are here: http://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

 

[Novriil]

Pretty creepy PLL algs.. How do You solve only with them?

Learn A and U perms for sure!

 

[josmil1]

Let me clarify, I know these Plls:

A(a)
A(b)
E
U(a)
U(b)
Z
H
J(a)
J(b)
T

from the ones I first posted those I just wanted to show the algorithms that I use for those specific ones. I wanted to know if those can be executed faster, in regards to my average times. Also because i feel very comfortable with those algorithms besides the others from wiki because of my horrible finger tricks thats my problem i think? besides most of those algs are from wiki

 

[Jokerman5656]

i suggest learning the rest of the PLL's

 

[mazei]

Don't listen to the last suggestion.

Just turn faster and have better look ahead.

As for algs, use what you feel comfortable with. I'm averaging 12s and yet I'm still changing my algs from time to time just because I don't feel comfortable with some of them.

 

[Jokerman5656]

whats wrong with my suggestion?

 

[DavidWoner]

PLL
1. E - x' [(R U' R') D (R U R')] u2 [(R' U R) D (R' U' R)] or
x (U R' U' L) (U R U' L') (U R U' L) (U R' U' r') or,

2. Z - (U2 R U R') (U R' U' R') (U R U' R') (U' R2 U R) or,
(U R' U' R) (U' R U R) (U' R' U R) (U R2 U' R') U or,
(R' U' R U') (R U R U') (R' U R U) (R2 U' R' U2) or,
(R U R' U) (R' U' R' U) (R U' R' U') (R2 U R U2)

3. H - (R2 U2 R U2) (R2 U2 R2 U2) (R U2 R2)

4. V - (R U' L' U R') (U' R U' L) (U R' U2 L') (U2 L) or,
(L' U R U' L) (U L' U R' U') (L U2 R U2 R')

Any of those Z perms will work, but I suggest you pick one now and only practice that one.

Don't use that H. It's ok for one-handed solving, but for 2-handed you are better off with M2 U M2 U2 M2 U M2, or if you are not comfortable with M-slice fingertricks yet you can perform it as r2 R2 U r2 R2 U2 r2 R2 U r2 R2 or something like that.

Both of those V perms look gross. You should try R' U R' U' x2 y' R' U R' U' l R U' R' U R U. I know it looks funky with that rotation in the middle, but its actually quite fast.

To improve your execution speed, watch PLL videos of fast people, like Erik or Breandan, and try out some of their fingertricks to see what feels best for you. Then, of course, you need to practice them.

 

[pentrixter]

best algs are here: http://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

You would be surprised. A fourth of my OLLs come from other sources and the speedsolving wiki doesn't even mention them. If you want good algorithms cross check:

http://www.cubestation.co.uk/
http://www.erikku.110mb.com/
http://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
http://www.cubezone.be/

Then compile your own customized list for the best algorithms for you for each case.

 

[Toad]

Your cross shouldn't take you that long as that should all be planned in pre-inspection if you can but that isn't the first thing to improve.

Most important thing for you to do is to choose only one algorithm for each PLL or OLL case... look at a few and hopefully one will just feel nicer than the others and write it down somewhere and learn it...

You should be able to get to averaging sub-40 with 4LLL and that is when I'd suggest learning full PLL which can then take you all the way to 20 second averages with a lot of practice.

Your F2L time doesn't seem too bad for your speed but it seems last layer alg execution is slowing you down at the moment.

But there's not harm in practicing metronome to improve your look ahead for F2L either...

But yeh to summarise:
- Get better algs for PLL and OLL (only learn 1 for each case but learn it properly)
- PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE
- When sub-40 average learn full PLL (erik has a nice pll video here)
- Profit

 

[Kolraz]

A fast turning speed is not necessary during your F2L at the moment. Try turning smoothly and consistently at a lower speed during F2L, and fast in Last layer. Go through each Algorithm and try many different ways of doing it.
Using a DIY cube so soon might be tempting you into turning too quickly during your F2L, so try slow it down.

 

[Cride5]

well I can recognize the oll's and pll's perfectly i just feel with the times im averaging, the problem could be the execution of them? That's why i posted the algorithms that I use. I only use those because im most comfortable with those than any others. I feel the ones from badmephisto's page are slower for me to execute than the ones i use.

turn faster?

best algs are here: http://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

I agree, the WIKI is deffo a great starting point for algs. Look at each one and carefully figure out how you can make it work well for you (eg, avoiding regrips, using lots of U/R moves etc). Although the wiki has a lot of algs, it doesn't have all (as pentrixter pointed out). Quite recently I went through ALL my PLLs and changed most of them. For each PLL I checked the wiki, then I checked a bunch of other sites such as:
http://www.speedcubing.com/final_layer_permutation.html
http://www.blueknightcubing.com/pll.htm (good for G perms)
http://cubewhiz.com/pll.html (has links to other sites PLLs)
http://www.cubestation.co.uk/cs2/index.php?page=3x3x3/cfop/pll/pllcaserest
http://badmephisto.dyndns.org/site/pll.php
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vA4JMS3IP6w (youtube of some nice fingertricky plls)

... and if none of the sites had any good algs I used Cube Explorer to generate my own ones. Any new stuff I found has been added to the Wiki.

Also, if you haven't seen this already, check out these basic fingertricks:
http://solvethecube.110mb.com/fingertricks.html

.. there are many more tricks you can use, so deffo take the time to get creative with your fingers

 

[pentrixter]

For PLLs, just use this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LW4TYyHH-1s

You can't get much better than this. You're learning from the best of the best.

 

[Lorenzo]

Oh yah, and btw. This is just a warning for when you start learning a lot of algorithms.

in the process of learning algorithms, you might find that your average is slowing down, but once you got the muscle memory and can recognize quicker, the times will drop sorta fast.

ALSO. don't learn too much too fast
you would either get a headache from trying to keep the stuff in your brain, or just forget stuff. But of course, some people are special and can learn a BUNCH of algs per day. I'm not one of these people.

but maybe, you already know this.

 

[enigmahack]

OLL
1. Headlights - (R U R' U') (R U' R' U2) (R U' R' U2) R U R' - headlights on left
(R U' L U') (R' U L' U2) (R U' R') - headlights in front

2. Chameleon - (r U R' U') (r' F R F') - yellow on the left

3. Cross Symmetric - (R U R' U) (R U' R' U) (R U2 R') or,
(R' U' R) U' (R' U R) U' (R' U2 R)


4. Diagonals - F' (r U R' U') r' F R or,
R U2 R' U' (R U R' U') (R U R' U') R U' R'

Your PLL's should be one of the first things to learn *I* would say - there are a lot of "shapes" that you can get used to in muscle memory that will help you memorize your OLL's. But focus on those first (In my opinion)

Also, for these algs above:

Headlights (with the two yellow facing away from you)
R2 D' R U2 R' D R U2 R (It's really fast if you do D' with your right finger on the right hand, do U2 with your thumb, and do D with the ring finger on your left hand)

Chameleon - I use the same alg depending on the case - i know the COLL algs for that one so it depends on the case I get.

Cross symmetric: I think you mean the cross where the yellow *assuming white is your cross color* is both facing towards you and away from you:

There are 2 algs I do for this one:
F (R U R' U')x3 F' or the one you use. (If the yellow points to the sides instead of front and back)

For Diagonals:
Suppose the yellow is facing BUL and RUF, (Towards your right hand closest to you and away from you in the back on the left)
I do:
x' (R U' R') D (R U R') D'

I push the U' with my thumb which gives me time to push the D with my Left hand ring finger. It also is very similar to Erik's E perm for PLL as well (similar shape and sequence) so it's easy to remember too.

I also agree that lookahead is SUPER important... but that comes with practice. If you're still learning F2L stuff, it's hard to look ahead when you're still working on getting comfortable with it.

Something that you can do for practice though for F2L is this:

Close your eyes!

What I mean is this: Find an edge pair, close your eyes. Now solve it, and once it's solve, when you open your eyes look for a new pair. Close eyes, and solve that one too.

This will get you used to not looking at the pair you're solving.

Eventually, you'll be able to look for pairs while solving the ones you're already working on. Little by little this will get faster and faster, until your whole F2L section takes like 8-10 seconds (by which time, you should probably already know full PLL and OLL)

Anyway - keep working on it!