Challenge (not really)

[qinbomaster]

Er... this is a sort of challenge that I feel randomly inclined to issue, which probably won't be very hard considering the cubers who prowl the forums.

solve a 3x3x3 using only logic/intuition and the A-Perm. no commutators that you've used before (make up some new ones if you have to).

I'm just wondering who can do this and if this is a particularly difficult feat.

Obviously, if you can solve the cube using only logic/intuition & no pre-learned commutators then this would be child's play.

 

[mande]

Me and my friend experimented in solving the cube with limited degrees of freedom some weeks ago.
e.g. Solve a cube using only OLL's and PLL's (excluding A and U perms) (no set up moves allowed, so we had to figure out how to rotate 1 face by 90 degrees only using OLL's and PLL's) This we did quite easily and in times like 2-3 minutes, so we limited the degrees even more and disallowed J or T or R perms since we were using these the most.

Btw, we figured that if we did a J perm 3 times (JyJyJ or something like that) then we could do a U move.

 

[ErikJ]

I have a 23 second average for solving with no algorithms. fun stuff.

 

[joey]

ErikJ: How do you solve it?

 

[qinbomaster]

yes, how did you?

 

[DavidWoner]

I have a 23 second average for solving with no algorithms. fun stuff.

I'm assuming petrus f2l plus intuitive comms for LL edges and Corners?

 

[Tyson]

Er... this is a sort of challenge that I feel randomly inclined to issue, which probably won't be very hard considering the cubers who prowl the forums.

solve a 3x3x3 using only logic/intuition and the A-Perm. no commutators that you've used before (make up some new ones if you have to).

I'm just wondering who can do this and if this is a particularly difficult feat.

Obviously, if you can solve the cube using only logic/intuition & no pre-learned commutators then this would be child's play.

Why do you even get the A-perm?

 

[Swordsman Kirby]

I have a 23 second average for solving with no algorithms. fun stuff.

Who said that commutators WEREN'T algorithms?

 

[joey]

I have a 23 second average for solving with no algorithms. fun stuff.

I'm assuming petrus f2l plus intuitive comms for LL edges and Corners?

Fridrich F2L doesn't use algs.

 

[d4m4s74]

it took me 2 minutes
Glad I didn't have opposite edges switched in a cross (I don't exactly know how to explain it) because I couldn't make up my own alg for that

 

[DavidWoner]

I have a 23 second average for solving with no algorithms. fun stuff.

I'm assuming petrus f2l plus intuitive comms for LL edges and Corners?

Fridrich F2L doesn't use algs.

I agree, but since Erik is a petrus user I just assumed that would be what he used. This competition is a little unclear in its definition of algorithms. I think a no set-ups T-perm or J-perm only competion would be more appropriate. and everyone uses the same scramble.

 

[qqwref]

It's fun to solve an entire cube with only the R perm (UF-UR, UBL-UBR) and no setups. I am actually thinking of writing up a very slow beginner solution that only uses one R-perm-like algorithm, maybe it will be a bit easier to memorize than normal LBL

As for 'algs', I would say that an algorithm is any sequence of moves you already know. If you have the algorithm in your muscle memory (for Fridrich F2L or whatever) and you use it every time for that case instead of figuring it out whenever you get there in a solve, you can't call it completely intuitive. If Erik really does have a 23 second average with absolutely no pre-learned move sequences, I'd like to see the method

 

[qinbomaster]

hm... i obviously didn't think before posting this topic

oh well, i'm more curious to see if people can solve the cube using logic and intuition more than memorized algorithms.

how does one create an intuitive commutator? actually, what is a commutator precisely?

 

[joey]

I have done J-perm only, but not R-perm only, I'll try now.

 

[somerandomkidmike]

last time I did this, I used 26 turns

10 for 3 slots of F2L (blockbuilding)
8 moves for solving all but 3 corners
8 moves for a commutator that I've never used prior to the solve

(please note that I did some turn backs, and It was a pretty lucky first 3 slots)

 

[somerandomkidmike]

hm... i obviously didn't think before posting this topic

oh well, i'm more curious to see if people can solve the cube using logic and intuition more than memorized algorithms.

how does one create an intuitive commutator? actually, what is a commutator precisely?

a commutator (if you're talking about rubik's cubes) is a sequence of turns made with intuition.

the pattern is X.Y.X^(-1).Y^(-1)

http://www.ryanheise.com/cube/commutators.html

 

[fanwuq]

I've used many commutators before, why can't I use them again? Does this mean People who do a lot of FMC and freestyle or BH BLD can't use any commutators?

I think you should say "do not use algorithm that you simply muscle memorized and not understand" instead.

 

[qqwref]

It's tricky, because what happens when you use a commutator so much (RUR' D RU'R' D' for instance, or the commutator 2-corner twist) that you can execute it automatically, even though you completely understand how it works? Is that an algorithm or isn't it?

 

[DavidWoner]

It's tricky, because what happens when you use a commutator so much (RUR' D RU'R' D' for instance, or the commutator 2-corner twist) that you can execute it automatically, even though you completely understand how it works? Is that an algorithm or isn't it?

of course its an algorithm. commutators are just algorithms that you make up on the spot. just because you understand what you're doing doesn't make it not an algorithm any more.

 

[jackolanternsoup]

I can use commutators no prob but I'm dead if I get 'parity'. Lol.