"around-the-corner"-colour scheme

[irontwig]

I was just thinking of a colour scheme that would look like a pochmann-style super cubes, with the exception that only corners and edges would have multiple colours on each side, instead of the centers. This way you could identify a piece just by looking at one side. On the 3x3 you would be able to see 7 corners and 9 edges, instead of just 4 corners[1] and 4 edges.

Good idea, bad idea, anyone tried it?



[1]You only need two sides to recognize a corner

 

[Ellis]

1) I think it would be harder (much harder), at least at first
2) Not competition legal, so I don't see much point in actually using it
3) I know for me, once I'm only 5 or 6 seconds into the solve I already know what all the corners and edges will be without looking at the last side of those pieces.

 

[irontwig]

1) I think it would be harder (much harder)
2) Not competition legal, so I don't see much point in actually using it
3) I know for me, once I'm only 5 or 6 seconds into the solve I already know what all the corners and edges will be without looking at the last side of those pieces.

Why isn't it competition legal? Thick tiles have the same effect and, and people are allowed to use those, aren't they? I really can't see any reason for disallowing it, it's after all the same puzzle.

Maybe there could be some advantage for big cube edges, I don't know.

I realized that this maybe should be in the hardware section, I'm sorry about that.

 

[Ellis]

3c) Competitors must use any colour scheme for cube puzzles, as long as the puzzles show one colour per face in solved state...
3d) The colours of puzzles must be solid, the same per colour, and clearly distinct from other colours.

And as for tiles, no it's not really the same effect

3j) Puzzles must be clean and must not have any textures, markings, elevated pieces, damages, or other differences that distinguish one piece from a similar piece.

If you can look at or feel 2 sides of any particular corner and immediately determine the third color without having to look at any other corners, then its illegal. Most people would see an advantage here. I see somewhat of a disadvantage in a color scheme like this because its too cluttered and might be a little confusing unless it was something you really practiced.

Edit: Okay you actually said "thick" tiles... I think I see what you're getting at.

3f) Tiles or stickers must not be thicker than 1.5 mm, or the generally available thickness for non cube puzzles.

That actually makes me think about mefferts tiles, I don't have any cubes with really thick tiles but I would think you would be able to see the colors without having to have the full look at the other side. Can anyone clarify this for me? Either way, thick tiles would not have the same potential advantage as a color scheme like this.

 

[irontwig]

You can "look around the corner" with my 3x3 with tiles from Mefferts, but it's not like it's super visible. No textures, etc is of course an obvious for BLD, but for normal solves I don't see any point of having that rule. Really, the only way to be truely sure about no cheating in BLD would be to disallow the use of your own puzzle. Could you, instead of just quoting rules express your opinion on the rule, do you think it's a good rule to have or not?

This kinda got me think about Formula 1, to many boring rules that prohibits creative solutions, e.g: people have used fans to suck to the car to the track and two pairs of wheels in the front, but they quickly got banned.

Edit: Couldn't you get around the one colour per face rule by having a slight slope towards the edges, so the edges would have four faces and the corners 12 faces?

 

[Ellis]

I think the rules are good and there for a reason. The texture rules were not made for just for BLD, its for normal solves. Working on feeling stickers you couldn't normally see is not part of the original puzzle. The puzzle is a cube shape, and as a result you cannot tell what stickers are on the other side... unless you practice enough to be able to tell just from what you can currently see and using process of elimination to deduce what that sticker is, which is the real puzzle part.

I think color schemes like this and having different textures would take some of the fun out of competition solving. People would be practicing all sorts of stuff to try and get faster with strange cubes and people who just work on solving a normal puzzle would be at an unfair advantage. In fact, I think there should be more strict rules on things like sticker quality, with peeling lamination and corners of stickers that are worn out. If one of your corner or edge stickers is damaged in a particular way, then you will be able to tell what a certain sticker is without having to look at it, which is unfair.

The rules are understandable and not unnecessarily strict. And about not being able to use your own cube during blindsolve... why? Cubes are examined before they are used in any event to make sure they aren't breaking any of these rules. So there's no problem with using your own cube for bld... infact I think its better than making someone use some standard competition cube that you haven't been able to practice with, what if it pops more than your normal cube, or isn't lubed how you want it to be?

As for your edit, I don't think I understand what you mean. But even then, the rules apply and are there for a reason... to keep everyone on the same playing field. And I support banning of people who do stuff like that in F1 racing and also stuff like using steroids in major league baseball or the olympics.

 

[irontwig]

I think color schemes like this and having different textures would take some of the fun out of competition solving. People would be practicing all sorts of stuff to try and get faster with strange cubes

To me that sounds more fun, but maybe that's just me.

and people who just work on solving a normal puzzle would be at an unfair advantage. In fact, I think there should be more strict rules on things like sticker quality, with peeling lamination and corners of stickers that are worn out. If one of your corner or edge stickers is damaged in a particular way, then you will be able to tell what a certain sticker is without having to look at it, which is unfair.

I assume you mean disadvantage. To me it's just as little unfair as the fact that some people know more algorithms than other people.

The rules are understandable and not unnecessarily strict. And about not being able to use your own cube during blindsolve... why? Cubes are examined before they are used in any event to make sure they aren't breaking any of these rules. So there's no problem with using your own cube for bld... infact I think its better than making someone use some standard competition cube that you haven't been able to practice with, what if it pops more than your normal cube, or isn't lubed how you want it to be?

I do realize that a standard competition cube is not an ideal solution, but I'm just saying that one might be able to use marking that are unnoticeable to the judges. I'm not saying that anyone has ever done this, but there's a small possibility that someone has(probably more because of that there's so little to be gained than the current rules).

As for your edit, I don't think I understand what you mean.

Ok, one part of the U-side of the UF-edge would be perfectly horisontal, and another part would be slightly in the UF direction. It would kinda look like a rough looking pillowed cube.

But even then, the rules apply and are there for a reason... to keep everyone on the same playing field. And I support banning of people who do stuff like that in F1 racing and also stuff like using steroids in major league baseball or the olympics.

I have no problem with doping and I would rather see interesting and unique technical solutions on the F1 tracks than the same car over and over (ok, it's not exactly the same car, but they are to a layman visually distinguishable).

 

[Ellis]

Okay well we obviously have disagreements on what should be considered fair. But then why any rules at all? Why should you not be able to start and stop the timer with the cube in hand? Why not be able to write stuff down during blindfold memorization? Why can you not talk with your friends while solving or look at written algorithms? There must be loads of rules that you think should be thrown out.

I find it hard to find a unfair regulation and I'm in agreement with almost all of them... I think I'm with most cubers on this one. The idea for your modification is the same thing, it's just not the original puzzle anymore. And yes, I did mean disadvantage. I think it would be sad to have these rules thrown out and see people trying to whore ways to get an edge over their competitors... we want this to be about solving normal cubes, not about clever tricks that change the idea of the original puzzle.

 

[irontwig]

The idea for your modification is the same thing, it's just not the original puzzle anymore.

Well, that's a bit drastic, isn't? I wouldn't even call it a modification, it's just a simple re-stickering. I really can't understand that you would consider it a different puzzle. To me it's kind of like using high contrast colours might speed things up, only a little bit more weird/interesting, or something. Speaking of which, fluorescent stickers are able to reflect onto the hands, oh my god, ban them!

 

[Ellis]

Well, I was talking about the pillowed shape, not restickering, so I think it would be a modification if you were to round everything off so much that you could see stickers that you normally wouldn't be able to.

Here's the way I see it. If you can use a method to solve it that you could not use on a normal 3x3, then it's a different puzzle. So your cube could be solved with a method that does not involve checking the backside for any stickers at all because they are clearly visible from more angles. All I'm saying is that it wouldn't be a normal 3x3, hence a (somewhat) different puzzle. If you don't agree, and still don't see any good reason to have such a rule, then I suggest you take it up with Ron and try to get the rules changed.

 

[blade740]

and people who just work on solving a normal puzzle would be at an unfair advantage. In fact, I think there should be more strict rules on things like sticker quality, with peeling lamination and corners of stickers that are worn out. If one of your corner or edge stickers is damaged in a particular way, then you will be able to tell what a certain sticker is without having to look at it, which is unfair.

I assume you mean disadvantage. To me it's just as little unfair as the fact that some people know more algorithms than other people.

I fail to see how being able to tell what color a sticker is without having to look at it is a DISadvantage. It seems like a clear advantage to me, and a downright CHEAT in BLD events.

 

[Ellis]

and people who just work on solving a normal puzzle would be at an unfair advantage. In fact, I think there should be more strict rules on things like sticker quality, with peeling lamination and corners of stickers that are worn out. If one of your corner or edge stickers is damaged in a particular way, then you will be able to tell what a certain sticker is without having to look at it, which is unfair.

I assume you mean disadvantage. To me it's just as little unfair as the fact that some people know more algorithms than other people.

I fail to see how being able to tell what color a sticker is without having to look at it is a DISadvantage. It seems like a clear advantage to me, and a downright CHEAT in BLD events.

Well you're right to say that, but he was right to correct me, I mistyped. The sentence read "People would be practicing all sorts of stuff to try and get faster with strange cubes and people who just work on solving a normal puzzle would be at an unfair advantage." I was saying that people solving normal puzzles would be at a disadvantage.

 

[blade740]

Ah, you're right. I misread what you mistyped.

 

[Ellis]

But thanks, someone finally came to back me up. Even if stickers like this didn't have separate textures that you could feel while doing blindfold, the memo would still be quicker, and unfair.