4x4x4s with Meffert/Meffert-like tiles have an unfair advantage: WCA-legal?

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brah
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I have a QJ 4x4x4 with Meffert-like tiles, and an Eastsheen 4x4x4 with Cubesmith tiles. I do NOT have a Meffert's 4x4x4, but I have seen and played with them a reasonable number of times for me to believe that their tiles are very similar to those on QJs.

mefferts.jpg
eastsheen.jpg
tiltup.jpg
tiltdown.jpg


Compare the first two pictures: On the QJ, one is able to see the white, red, yellow and orange tiles protruding from the U, R, D and L faces respectively. On the Eastsheen, one is only able to see 2 faces when the cube is held at the same angle.

In the third picture: While both cubes are tilted at the same angle in the x/[r] direction, the D tiles on the QJ are clearly visible while those on the Eastsheen are clearly not. Same goes for the fourth picture, only the cubes are tilted in the x'/[r'] direction (U: green, B: yellow).

I know my pictures are not that clear, if you have both a Meffert (or its clones) and an Eastsheen (or its clones), you can hold them at the same angle and see for yourself how ridiculously significant this unfair advantage is.

How it's unfair
Irrefutably, the cuber who uses the QJ has a very large look-ahead advantage during edge-pairing (I believe it is reasonable to assume that at least 90% of 4x4x4 solvers use reduction). There's also another less obvious advantage: Look-ahead during the 3x3x3 stage is relatively easier on the QJ, this advantage is IMO most pronounced during PLL recognition. Take a look at the first picture, now imagine if green were the U face, you'd be able to see all 4 sides just by looking from that angle, you don't even have to AUF or tilt the cube! Now that's not what I'd call "normal" PLL recognition, if this is legal, I'm gonna tile my 3x3x3 with tiles that are at least 2 mm thick before my next competition. (<--- Edit: Oops, I was a little rash there, forgot the WCA rules :o Fine, 1.5 mm then!)

Most of us probably believe we got faster on the Meffert's purely because of its mechanism. But I have presented my reasons to believe that the improvement in our performances can also be largely attributed to the increase in ease of look-ahead.

This clearly goes against the WCA goal of more competitions in more countries with more people and more fun, under fair conditions.
 
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Well I don't think it's THAT big of an advantage..I mean during solves you don't really hold the cube exactly from that angle..and your lookahead probably already tells you what colours are on the left/right/up/down/ as you perform your previous step..

Well it MIGHT be an advantage if you practise enough with it..but I don't think it's a big deal
 
Well I don't think it's THAT big of an advantage..I mean during solves you don't really hold the cube exactly from that angle..and your lookahead probably already tells you what colours are on the left/right/up/down/ as you perform your previous step..

Well it MIGHT be an advantage if you practise enough with it..but I don't think it's a big deal
People NEED to realize that it IS a big deal. You don't realize it, but it IS a very huge advantage during edge-pairing. Think about how you used to tilt your cube almost 90 degrees to look at the D layer using an Eastsheen, see how much you tilt your cube now. I think the best way to convince yourself is to take an Eastsheen and a Meffert's side-by-side and do the comparisons yourself.

But I do know this.
Then why haven't you brought this up to the WCA?

Mefferts like tiles are illegal to use in BLD solves in competitions.
Why? Can you please link me to a discussion thread?
 
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if this is legal, ....

Isn't that like, illegal?

...

Quote from the regulations: "3f) Tiles or stickers must not be thicker than 1.5 mm, or the generally available thickness for non cube puzzles.". Does anyone know what the limit is exactly?

Edit: Oh, I think I read that wrong. The limit for cube puzzles is 1.5 mm. But for non-cube puzzles, there's no hard limit; if someone starts selling megaminxes with 5 mm tiles, they are legal. I wonder why the rule is different for cubes and other puzzles.
 
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Further convincing:

yperm.jpg

Conventional PLL recognition angle: Most people wouldn't be able to tell that this is a Y perm.

ypermeastsheen.jpg

Stupid PLL recognition angle: All people wouldn't be able to tell that this is a Y perm.

ypermmefferts.jpg

Smart PLL recognition angle: All people will be able to tell that this is a Y perm.

See?

Again, don't blame the picture, I have a lousy camera, try it out on a Meffert's and see for yourself.
 
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Why? Can you please link me to a discussion thread?

They have a logo saying "Meffert's Challenge" on one corner tile on each side.

That you can't see unless you take your time to look at it, though. Which is why it's not an issue for speedsolving. I didn't even notice it was on more than one side for months (and that was because someone pointed it out to me).

On-topic: I'm not going to get into how minute an advantage this ends up being during a speedsolve, because it really doesn't matter here. This line of argument is ridiculous. You're basically saying that this cube is better. If that's so, use it. It's not unfair unless some people are allowed to use it and some aren't. The rules remain the same for everyone, and that's what matters.
 
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When I got my QJ 4x4, I noticed that it instantly improved my recognition, I can now find edge pieces much easier and I don't have to tilt the cube that much. With the QJ, I have much less pauses during edge pairing.

Exactly how thick are the tiles on these cubes anyway? If they are 1.5mm, then there's no problem. Sure they give the cuber an advantage, but like Kian said, if everyone is allowed to use these cubes then it's fair. It's like saying that having a DIY 3x3x3 is an unfair advantage because it cuts corners and turns better than a storebought.
 
When I got my QJ 4x4, I noticed that it instantly improved my recognition, I can now find edge pieces much easier and I don't have to tilt the cube that much. With the QJ, I have much less pauses during edge pairing.

Exactly how thick are the tiles on these cubes anyway? If they are 1.5mm, then there's no problem. Sure they give the cuber an advantage, but like Kian said, if everyone is allowed to use these cubes then it's fair. It's like saying that having a DIY 3x3x3 is an unfair advantage because it cuts corners and turns better than a storebought.
Actually, I thought the same as Kian right from the start :) Obviously I didn't want anyone to (or think anyone would want to) make a Meffert's illegal. I just blew the whole thing up to see how big a deal it could become, purely for amusement :p Seems I failed get much attention though :fp-to-self

If my measurements are accurate, I believe they're ONLY 1 mm thick, which means it could be even thicker :rolleyes: I don't think it affects my solves THAT much, but I don't think the effects are "minute" either. I'm not afraid to admit that I hold the cube in that "cheating position" (nearing the end of OLL execution) for PLL recognition every time, and it definitely makes PLL recognition easier :p

You might like to try this out for self-amusement: If you try hard enough, you can actually see 12 edges on a QJ without tilting the cube (or your head for that matter). On a stickered cube, you can only see a maximum of 6 at any one time ;)
 
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When I got my QJ 4x4, I noticed that it instantly improved my recognition, I can now find edge pieces much easier and I don't have to tilt the cube that much. With the QJ, I have much less pauses during edge pairing.

Exactly how thick are the tiles on these cubes anyway? If they are 1.5mm, then there's no problem. Sure they give the cuber an advantage, but like Kian said, if everyone is allowed to use these cubes then it's fair. It's like saying that having a DIY 3x3x3 is an unfair advantage because it cuts corners and turns better than a storebought.
Actually, I thought the same as Kian right from the start :) Obviously I didn't want anyone to (or think anyone would want to) make a Meffert's illegal. I just blew the whole thing up to see how big a deal it could become, purely for amusement :p Seems I failed get much attention though :fp-to-self

If my measurements are accurate, I believe they're ONLY 1 mm thick, which means it could be even thicker :rolleyes: I don't think it affects my solves THAT much, but I don't think the effects are "minute" either. I'm not afraid to admit that I hold the cube in that "cheating position" (nearing the end of OLL execution) for PLL recognition every time, and it definitely makes PLL recognition easier :p

You might like to try this out for self-amusement: If you try hard enough, you can actually see 12 edges on a QJ without tilting the cube (or your head for that matter). On a stickered cube, you can only see a maximum of 6 at any one time ;)

Ive taken off my tiles and measured them.

Theyre 1.5mm, the exact limit.
 
But I do know this. Mefferts like tiles are illegal to use in BLD solves in competitions.

What?? :( Really?? OMG.
I've just bought Mefferts 5x5x5 from Mefferts.com to be use for 5x5x5 BLD.
I didn't know at all that Mefferts have bulged logos on each corners... :(

No, many people have used them in competitions for 4bld. It is stupid to think someone would feel for a slight plastic engraving to help them for bld. Anyway, they are on all 6 sides so it would be impossible to tell what colour the corner is.
 
Ha this is a cool thought. I dont think it matters too much as anyone can chose to use one. Thanks! now when i get a 4x4 etc ill use this to recognise PLLs.
 
Hmm, the Japanese cubers and Han Cyun Chen are another aspect to consider. They use stickers on their cubes, and have some of the fastest times in the world for 4x4.

Yu Nakajima has reached sub 45 averages with stickers.
As has Syu (I think). Syu also has the WR single, and he has stickers.

Han Cyun Chen has the WR average, and he doesn't use a mefferts or thick tiles.
 
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