Twisted Corner in Competition?

[CarlBrannen]

Seems to me that if you allow competitors to twist "one corner", what you're really doing is allowing them to twist two, one "accidentally", and one deliberately, and not necessarily the same one. Could be room for some abuse but it would take a pretty sharp dealer to pull it off.

 

[Vincents]

Seems to me that if you allow competitors to twist "one corner", what you're really doing is allowing them to twist two, one "accidentally", and one deliberately, and not necessarily the same one. Could be room for some abuse but it would take a pretty sharp dealer to pull it off.

Oh believe me, we discussed this one for weeks. Trying to "accidentally" twist a corner is going to be frowned upon, and I'll leave it at that.

 

[cubernya]

Not to mention it's pretty hard to twist a corner by turning, especially during a solve (plus you have to realise it will give you an advantage)

 

[ben1996123]

Not to mention it's pretty hard to twist a corner by turning

not with a fangshi

 

[jayefbe]

I've twisted corners a couple times in competition, if I remember correctly. It's not that difficult, depending on the cube.

While I agree with those saying it could theoretically be used to someone's advantage, there's the risk that a corner twist still wouldn't lead to a favorable case. Whenever it happens to me, I lose a good second from figuring out how to twist it to make it solvable, and physically twisting the corner. I would be surprised if anyone found a way to regularly use it to their advantage.

 

[~Adam~]

I guess we should just wait until someone has a LL of a single corner twist in comp to break a NR or something similar. I'm sure everyone would be OK with it if that happened.

 

[Goosly]

^ Yeah, cos the change of accidentally twisting a corner and then getting a LL with one corner twist is extremely high, so it will surely happen on a NR solve. I bet it happens at worlds.

 

[BillyRain]

not with a fangshi

THIS

With my current tension, I get one like ever 10 solves.... I love the tension but it's an arse pain for corner twists

 

[aashritspidey]

I Feel that there should be a +2 for One corner twist instead of a DNF.
Why i support this is because these next Gen cubes corner twist a LOT and sometimes, The scrambler may corner twist a puzzle but the competitor has to pay the price

 

[Future Cuber]

I Feel that there should be a +2 for One corner twist instead of a DNF.
Why i support this is because these next Gen cubes corner twist a LOT and sometimes, The scrambler may corner twist a puzzle but the competitor has to pay the price

I DO agree with you said
and besides DNF is when the cube is at the state where 2 or more moves of solving the cube and you stopped the timer (i think)
and the corner twist CANNOT be solved with any number of moves or unless you twist another corner

 

[ottozing]

I Feel that there should be a +2 for One corner twist instead of a DNF.
Why i support this is because these next Gen cubes corner twist a LOT and sometimes, The scrambler may corner twist a puzzle but the competitor has to pay the price

Consider this. A competitor does a BLD solve and finishes with a single twisted corner. If a corner twist is now a +2, there are now 8 states the puzzle can be in to be considered solved for 3x3, 4x4, and 5x5. I don't think this is very fair since a competitor could still solve the puzzle 'incorrectly' and still end up with a time + a penalty instead of a DNF. I wasn't sure if you meant this would be +2 for all events or just sighted ones, but you didn't specify so I felt this was worth bringing up anyway.

 

[Deleted member 19792]

I Feel that there should be a +2 for One corner twist instead of a DNF.
Why i support this is because these next Gen cubes corner twist a LOT and sometimes, The scrambler may corner twist a puzzle but the competitor has to pay the price

Is the scrambler messing with the competitor? Scramblers have a visual guide to verify that the scramble is correct.

 

[goodatthis]

I Feel that there should be a +2 for One corner twist instead of a DNF.
Why i support this is because these next Gen cubes corner twist a LOT and sometimes, The scrambler may corner twist a puzzle but the competitor has to pay the price

There could be too many ways to abuse this rule. Let's say a competitor gets a pure corner twist OLL. He "accidentally" twists one corner, the judge isn't paying attention, and the puzzle is considered solved, even though he had a good amount of moves left to do. So while I think it's good in theory, there are ways to cheat using this rule.

 

[kcl]

Is the scrambler messing with the competitor? Scramblers have a visual guide to verify that the scramble is correct.

As shown at some decent Michigan comps it's clear not everybody pays attention to it.

 

[kinch2002]

DNF is when the cube is at the state where 2 or more moves of solving the cube and you stopped the timer (i think)
and the corner twist CANNOT be solved with any number of moves or unless you twist another corner

So I can start the timer, twist a corner, and then stop the timer. The cube cannot be solved with any number of moves therefore is not DNF? I'm not convinced by your definition

 

[Antonie faz fan]

As shown at some decent Michigan comps it's clear not everybody pays attention to it.

Kinda this ...
I don't want to sound like I don't check each side since I do, but I am sure that there are some people out there who look at the top and front and see it is correct and put the cube in the box....

 

[10461394944000]

I am sure that there are some people out there who look at the top and front and see it is correct and put the cube in the box....

yes i do this but you can feel when corner twists happen and check the corners if you think a corner twisted somewhere

 

[Dene]

Why i support this is because these next Gen cubes corner twist a LOT

I don't know why so many people have problems with corner twists. I always move onto the latest popular cubes, and I very very rarely corner twist. I think people should either:
1) Tighten their cubes a tiny bit; or
2) Learn to turn properly; or
3) Just pay attention and make sure the puzzle is solved when you stop the timer.

 

[kcl]

Problem with Corner Twists

I don't know why so many people have problems with corner twists. I always move onto the latest popular cubes, and I very very rarely corner twist. I think people should either:
1) Tighten their cubes a tiny bit; or
2) Learn to turn properly; or
3) Just pay attention and make sure the puzzle is solved when you stop the timer.

This just means you turn slow.

1. Tightening a cube generally makes performance significantly worse.
2. We turn properly, but at high TPS, corner twists are bound to happen once in a while.
3. When you are trying to gogo after PLL, you pretty much just AUF and then slam the timer. If you twist a corner during AUF or PLL there isn't much you can do about it if you're already slamming your hands down.

 

[Dane man]

Cutting from other thread.

There could be too many ways to abuse this rule. Let's say a competitor gets a pure corner twist OLL. He "accidentally" twists one corner, the judge isn't paying attention, and the puzzle is considered solved, even though he had a good amount of moves left to do. So while I think it's good in theory, there are ways to cheat using this rule.

You will never get a corner twist OLL with only one corner twisted. If you do because of some weird non-3x3 parity, and do the corner twist, then you'll solve the cube to an impossible state where there are two pieces switched. And say you just turn one corner with a normal OLL in order to skip OLL and end up with a twisted corner. If you perform a corner twist in a supposed attempt to fix the cube, and then still end up with a twisted corner, then this case can be dismissed as DNF. Intentional corner twists are very visible. I also find it likely that you'll end up with an impossible PLL in doing this, thus having to do an OLL first anyway.

Consider this. A competitor does a BLD solve and finishes with a single twisted corner. If a corner twist is now a +2, there are now 8 states the puzzle can be in to be considered solved for 3x3, 4x4, and 5x5. I don't think this is very fair since a competitor could still solve the puzzle 'incorrectly' and still end up with a time + a penalty instead of a DNF. I wasn't sure if you meant this would be +2 for all events or just sighted ones, but you didn't specify so I felt this was worth bringing up anyway.

A corner twist is neither the cuber's fault, nor detectable in BLD, nor a possible state. If a corner twist occurs, it is obviously an accident. In normal non-BLD solving, cubers are allowed to twist the corners back before stopping the timer, and they get a valid solve. And because twisting the corner back only take about 0.5 sec, it actually shouldn't have a penalty of any kind (at most +2, if you wanna be uptight about it), especially for BLD solvers. Even when solving the cube correctly, a corner twist can occur. The cuber did nothing wrong.

Going on that line of thinking, if a corner twist is found in normal solving, it shouldn't be counted against the cuber as a DNF. Think about this, one cuber sees the twisted corner, twists it back, and gets a valid solve, while another cuber gets a corner twist on a corner he doesn't see and suddenly he gets DNF because the corner-twist (not his fault) happened somewhere else.

Corner twists are a fact of cubing life, and they are also an impossible state that is obviously an accident, not a mistake (or it's the scrambler's fault). It doesn't and shouldn't count as solving "wrong". I think that regulation 5b5d should be changed to read "If two or more parts with more than one coloured face is affected, the puzzle is considered unsolved (DNF)" instead of "one or more parts".