2 look OLL and 2 look PLL

[cusx]

hi all, I'm new in solving the Rubik's cube

I have learned the beginners method from badmephisto

and now I would like to proceed, I wonder if I should learn 2 look OLL and 2 Look PLL

since there are methods like F2L -> OLL -> PLL in solving the Rubik's cube.

 

[eragg0]

Yep. Learn 2-look PLL/OLL before continuing to f2l

 

[cusx]

Hmm, one question

are 2-Look PLL/OLL same as OLL/PLL ?

 

[shelley]

OLL = orient last layer
PLL = permute last layer

With 2-look, you're just doing each of these stages in two steps. Eventually you'll probably graduate to doing each stage in one step, which involves learning a total of 57 OLL algs and 21 PLL algs.

 

[cusx]

hmm, then Why everyone is learning 2look since its easier if we just learn OLL/PLL


or I have to learn things from the basics ?

 

[natwky56]

well i am using 2 look OLL and Full PLL as you see its a stepping stone for me before I memorise the Full set of 21/57 algs.

The full set gives you speed but you have to emo all the 78 algs, while 2 Looks give you less speed while memorising less (about 16 algs) and is a good beginning to becoming a speedcuber. I greatly suggest Macky's site for 4 look LL (2 look PLL/OLL).

After getting your average times below 1 min, try F2L as depicted from 1 of badmephisto's videos. After 40 seconds average, you can improve on your cross (do it withig 8 steps)and memorise THE Full PLL/OLL algs.

If you have any other problems just post it in my thread: http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4600

EDIT: badmephisto's vid can be found under the category "Cubing: advanced"

 

[cusx]

Thanks ! , I think i'll enjoy my stay here !

 

[ManuK]

I'd suggest u learn the keyhole method, its very easy and intuitive .
I am right now using two-look OLL,2-look PLL(4-look LL).Right now,starting to study complete PLL + OLL(few cases more,u know when u don't get a "L" shape or a line in the top layer).

I skipped to Fridrich F2L straightaway after beginner's, but doubt whether that is the way to go.Badmephisto's Two-look OLL,PLL videos could be useful.

 

[cusx]

hmm, why DO we have to learn keyhole then since there is F2L?

and why do we need to learn 2lookOLL/PLL which need 2 steps

why not we just focus on OLL/PLL which is only one step, and is our final destination ?

Hope someone can clarify this with me

 

[Neutrals01]

hmm, why DO we have to learn keyhole then since there is F2L?

and why do we need to learn 2lookOLL/PLL which need 2 steps

why not we just focus on OLL/PLL which is only one step, and is our final destination ?

Hope someone can clarify this with me

Reason : It is harder to learn f2l + oll + pll than keyhole + 2 look oll + 2 look pll...

Daily life explanation of ur question : Why do u go to kindergarten(keyhole), primary(2 look oll), secondary(2 look pll) schools? Why not straight go to university(f2l + oll + pll)... that is what u r trying to say..

 

[AvGalen]

2 look OLL an 2 look PLL are subsets of full OLL and PLL. That means you are actually learning algs that you will use later.

http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?t=803 explains it all

 

[cusx]

Okays,

so skipping 2 look OLL and 2 look PLL doesn't seems to be a good idea =X

 

[cookingfat]

Okays,

so skipping 2 look OLL and 2 look PLL doesn't seems to be a good idea =X

I think this is right (correct me if I'm wrong)

2 look OLL and 2 look PLL = learn 15 algorithms (9 OLLs and 6 PLLs)
3 look Last Layer = learn 30 algorithms (9 OLLs and all 21 PLLs
2 look Last Layer = learn 78 algorithms (all 57 OLLs and all 21 PLLs)

so, best thing would be to learn the 4 look first, then if you want, you can learn the rest of the PLLs to make a 3 look. learning the other OLLs should be the last thing you do.

 

[brunson]

Keyhole techniques are also useful in a full F2L if you have open slots. Using a keyhole method when you already have your corner in place and an open slot is a 5 move alg as opposed to 8 moves.

Everything is interrelated, nothing is wasted.

 

[AvGalen]

Okays,

so skipping 2 look OLL and 2 look PLL doesn't seems to be a good idea =X

I think this is right (correct me if I'm wrong)

2 look OLL and 2 look PLL = learn 15 algorithms (9 OLLs and 6 PLLs)
3 look Last Layer = learn 30 algorithms (9 OLLs and all 21 PLLs
2 look Last Layer = learn 78 algoriths (all 57 OLLs and all 21 PLLs)

so, best thing would be to learn the 4 look first, then if you want, you can learn the rest of the PLLs to make a 3 look. learning the other OLLs should be the last thing you do.

You can debate about 9 or 10 OLL's but I would say 10. I posted a link just a couple of posts back that lists them

 

[Neutrals01]

Okays,

so skipping 2 look OLL and 2 look PLL doesn't seems to be a good idea =X

I think this is right (correct me if I'm wrong)

2 look OLL and 2 look PLL = learn 15 algorithms (9 OLLs and 6 PLLs)
3 look Last Layer = learn 30 algorithms (9 OLLs and all 21 PLLs
2 look Last Layer = learn 78 algoriths (all 57 OLLs and all 21 PLLs)

so, best thing would be to learn the 4 look first, then if you want, you can learn the rest of the PLLs to make a 3 look. learning the other OLLs should be the last thing you do.

You can debate about 9 or 10 OLL's but I would say 10. I posted a link just a couple of posts back that lists them

I would say 17 olls is a better choice... 2 form cross on last layer... 7 for oll for cross cases and 8 for oll for dot cases(dot cases need 12 moves to form cross on last layer compared to L and straight line cases)...by learning dot cases oll...u save up to 10 moves...

if possible...also learn the 2 cases with all corners oriented but edge not oriented(immediate recognition - it is very easy to see if all corners are already oriented>)..and the 3 cases that can oll in 6 moves(don't really need to learn much, it is just like the 2 algos u use to form cross on last layer..just that u have to recognize the case on which of the 6 moves algo to apply<all T shaped corners, so would be easy to recognize too>)...

so a total of 22 cases compared to the 57 oll cases... I can say that learning the 57 oll cases compared to the 22 important cases helps only up to 2 secs at max on average..(if u really do the calculation..in quarter turn metric >> learn 57 oll cases : 9 oll cases >> save 6 moves on average , 57 oll cases : 22 oll cases >> save 3 moves+ on average)..so I doubt that 3 moves+ can improve ur time more than 2 secs on average..

 

[natwky56]

i say just learn the minimal... After all, u just want to solve the cube faster and it will be better if you just learnt the rest all at once.

On the other hand, you may also want to learn the algs 1 by 1 anduse 2 Look for only those that you have not memorized. I'm not sure if it's better but you could try.

 

[Neutrals01]

i say just learn the minimal... After all, u just want to solve the cube faster and it will be better if you just learnt the rest all at once.

On the other hand, you may also want to learn the algs 1 by 1 anduse 2 Look for only those that you have not memorized. I'm not sure if it's better but you could try.

but the times will not be so consistent...getting dot case - slow time..

 

[cusx]

so as a conclusion

learn beginners method first

next Keyhole

2look OLL

2look PLL

F2l

OLL

PLL ..

right ?

 

[shelley]

Learn PLL before OLL. There are fewer of them and they are more useful. You can get to sub-20 without knowing full OLL.

Figure out F2L intuitively as you're working on the 2 look OLL/PLL stage. You can look into keyhole if it helps you understand things better, but I don't think it's an absolutely necessary stepping stone.