Martín Telésforo "4.41 single" DNF - Perry Open, Mexico

[ryanj92]

I'm not sure why Tim's post hasn't been the last in this thread. It contains all the information that the cubing community needs to know right now. Anything else is speculation, and people are inconsiderate of the fact that by WCA delegates and board members reading this forum, their opinions on the matter will have been coloured, and thus they can be less confident in their decision making.

Please for the love of god close this thread; it can only have a negative bearing on the discussion. If anybody has relevant information (such as attachment 2873) then it ought to be submitted to the WCA board - not here.

Also, there have been multiple sub 5s, and several sub 4s. When people reach 8-9tps they are obviously going to hit those times, since they'll encounter a 30-odd move speedsolve solution at some point.

Just for context, the thread was closed there earlier, and has since been reopened. So it was, for a while

 

[Arsonist]

I'm running J-perm (in 4 positions on each of U and D), plus the scramble, on Cube Explorer. A short solution would mean that, once the scramble is applied, there is a short way to solve the cube into a J perm. There are no solutions on any of the 8 scrambles shorter than 17 moves, though. So this guy would have to be "improvising" at least 17 moves, plus a J-perm, in that time. I'm not sure he's capable of that, no matter the luck, if he didn't know the scramble beforehand.

EDIT: For example, one of the solutions was D' R U B2 R L F' U2 L D' F2 D B' L' D2 U' F2 (17f*), so we can solve the scramble F2 D2 B2 F2 R F2 L' D2 B U B2 R' F2 U' F' D' L D2 with x2 U' R D F2 R L B' D2 L U' B2 U F' L' U2 D' B2 [J perm].

Maybe running on FBLR would give shorter solves? If he solves on an uncommon color...

 

[qqwref]

Nah, he said something about "así que decidí empezar a armar la cara blanca" and "el patrón de la cruz amarilla que había decidido armar" so it's a pretty fair assumption that he solved on either U or D.

Anyway, I realized that I only used one of the two J perms, but doing the 8 positions with the other J isn't giving me any solves under 17 moves either.

 

[fastcubesolver]

The judge filled out his initials before the average was complete. That alone should disqualify the average, for any circumstance, with a WR or not.

 

[Ágoston Török]

I'm an avg14-15 cuber (which isn't good, but still better than this guy) and I had one sub 8 solve in my entire life, and about 20 sub 10 solves. I will NOT accept that solve as a World Record ever! I hope the WCA delegates won't let it happen! :/

 

[mitch1234]

I feel pretty confident in saying that this is what most likely happened. The judge signed for all 5 solves before they happened, the 4.41 happened by some fluke of stopping the timer while solving, and then the solver gets away with it becase the judge wasn't paying attention. They are saying its the WR because the judge indeed did sign for the solve. I've tried to talk to some of the people at the competition but they just either don't tell anything or they just say that the solve happened and claim it to be a WR while not seeing the solve themselves. Its just a bunch of bull, more regulation of procedures for solving might be needed so that things like this don't happen again.

 

[Ágoston Török]

the 4.41 happened by some fluke of stopping the timer while solving, and then the solver gets away with it becase the judge wasn't paying attention. They are saying its the WR because the judge indeed did sign for the solve.

I agree. :/ It even feels bad to think about it's being a real solve...
In the Cubing dare club Jonathan Esteban Rivera Castillón said: "Well, the fakes he made before weren't done in a competition, he was recorded solving the rubik's cube in 5 seconds, obviously it was fake and later he admit it"

 

[KCuber]

Anyone notice he does cross on U?

 

[Kirjava]

Would you say that if Mats or Faz got the same time?

The difference is that their solves would not be suspicious.

 

[Zaratustra]

First of all, we mexicans are NOT claiming the WR. Second, it was NOT a prank. That guy, Martín, had fame in the mexican community years ago, for posting fake solves. Almost everybody in the community is saying that "WR" was fake. Unfortunately, we don't have proofs of him cheating. But I am 100% sure it was fake, hands down

 

[TheCuber23]

It might end up being like one of these... http://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/List_of_World_Records/Disqualified

 

[A Leman]

First of all, we mexicans are NOT claiming the WR. Second, it was NOT a prank. That guy, Martín, had fame in the mexican community years ago, for posting fake solves. Almost everybody in the community is saying that "WR" was fake. Unfortunately, we don't have proofs of him cheating. But I am 100% sure it was fake, hands down

I don't think it is the Mexican community's fault. There are good cubers in Mexico pushing the limits like everywhere else. I would be a bit surprised, but not shocked if Gabriel or Jorge did this. People are just lashing out at something that seems ridiculous. An individual does not define your community.

 

[FernandoMunox]

I think less than 10% of the mexican community actually supports the WR as true, sadly that 10% made an excellent work posting it everywhere without a solid verdict from the WCA

 

[Echo Cubing]

As one of the sponsors in the Perry Open,we hope there is a world record broken,but..we also need the truth...
Let's wait patiently to see what WCA will announce.

I think less than 10% of the mexican community actually supports the WR as true, sadly that 10% made an excellent work posting it everywhere without a solid verdict from the WCA

Though i am not a Mexican,i still trust there are so many people who really like cubing and also supports the WR. It's ridiculous to deny them because of one exception.
And ,also,one thing we can do is waiting a solid verdict from the WCA.It's useless to blame

 

[gpt_kibutz]

Just to clarify some things about the video. This was filmed after he solved the cube. In the video you can actually hear how he takes the cube from the table and "purposedly" scrambles it One Handed and after that they take pictures.
I dare to say that the mexican community is NOT claiming the WR. This guy has a history of cheating and in the very best case we would be talking about a badley scrambled cube.
anyway, he has also posted on the mexican page that he is "studying" papers on studies of the proof of the God's Algorithm. It seems to me that his "reconstruction" has turned to nothing more than a "fewest move" competition where he is trying to find a triple X-cross, and OLL skip and a J perm as he previously stated. I would guess that he is not going to be able to do it (thanks to qqref who has also proved it is impossible).

 

[qqwref]

anyway, he has also posted on the mexican page that he is "studying" papers on studies of the proof of the God's Algorithm.

This by itself suggests that he cheated and is now trying to come up with an excuse so people will stop questioning it. There's no paper with a nice simple proof of God's Algorithm (it was proven with extensive computer computation), and no way to easily come up with a near-optimal solution by hand. It certainly wouldn't help someone solve a cube extremely quickly, but maybe someone who doesn't know much about cube theory might think it could.

(thanks to qqref who has also proved it is impossible).

I wouldn't say it's impossible... there is just no incredibly short solution, nothing that you would expect someone to accidentally come up with on the fly.

 

[samchoochiu]

It doesn't matter who the competitior is. the judge can't put his/her initials in all the spots first off, because then any time could get written in and be made official.

We don't know that, the judge could have signed after the solve for the first two solves but decided to later fill the last three blanks.

 

[ben1996123]

We don't know that, the judge could have signed after the solve for the first two solves but decided to later fill the last three blanks.

people seem to not realise that the competitior should have sgnd the score card too after he finished the solve

 

[samchoochiu]

people seem to not realise that the competitior should have sgnd the score card too after he finished the solve

Then the scrambler was wrong to scramble for the second solve and should have rejected to scramble before the competitor signs for the first.

 

[kinch2002]

I'm running J-perm (in 4 positions on each of U and D), plus the scramble, on Cube Explorer. A short solution would mean that, once the scramble is applied, there is a short way to solve the cube into a J perm. There are no solutions on any of the 8 scrambles shorter than 17 moves, though. So this guy would have to be "improvising" at least 17 moves, plus a J-perm, in that time. I'm not sure he's capable of that, no matter the luck, if he didn't know the scramble beforehand.

EDIT: For example, one of the solutions was D' R U B2 R L F' U2 L D' F2 D B' L' D2 U' F2 (17f*), so we can solve the scramble F2 D2 B2 F2 R F2 L' D2 B U B2 R' F2 U' F' D' L D2 with x2 U' R D F2 R L B' D2 L U' B2 U F' L' U2 D' B2 [J perm].

QQ, have you submitted this evidence to the board? I think it's fairly important