WCA has now banned stickerless cubes for BLD. Thoughts?

[ThomasJE]

Since my only great cube is a colored cube, this is disappointing. What about Marcel’s WR's? Should they be null because he was retroactively cheating? Do people honestly think his records are so unassailable just because of the cube he used? I seriously doubt it.

There is a rule covering that. Let me find it...

EDIT:

9i3) If the regulations for an event are changed, then the old regional records stand until they are broken under the new regulations.

 

[AustinReed]

I am very happy with this decision. I do believe coloured cubes give an advantage, even if it's very slight. I want the rules to be as consistent as they can be, and it's the step in the right direction.

 

[samchoochiu]

I am very happy with this decision. I do believe coloured cubes give an advantage, even if it's very slight. I want the rules to be as consistent as they can be, and it's the step in the right direction.

I'm glad I have found someone that supports this change for the exact same reasons I do.

 

[reThinking the Cube]

How can the speedsolving community get the minutes for all of the WCA rule change meetings that addressed this issue?

 

[Vincents]

Part of the entire controversy arose because when the stickerless cubes first came out, Delegates in different areas of the world made different rulings on their legality, in accordance how they best felt the Regulations should have been interpreted. This inconsistency was then partially rectified (banned in speedsolve), and some officials felt that a ban in speedsolve covered a ban in BLD, but other officials differed in opinion.

Later, the status if stickerless cubes was clarified and communicated to all Delegates. Due to the earlier confusion, we decided to release a public announcement to reduce confusion (e.g. people showing up with the expectation that their cubes would be allowed, only to have Delegates turn them down).

So, in essence, our situation arose from judgment calls. Much as how in the law, different judges will interpret laws in different ways (e.g. for those of you well-versed in American history, study the history behind the Second Amendment), different Delegates ruled differently (in our analogy, District courts ruled differently). This was escalated (appealed, for those of you still keeping up with the analogy, up to the Circuit and Supreme Court level). Finally, a clarification (ruling) was made.

And in response to hcfong, basically there wasn't really a decision made. Some officials believed the DaYan stickerless cubes were illegal across all events. Others thought they might be okay in BLD, but after further consultation and research, it was clear that they should be not be used in all events.

Marcell's (I might be getting the number of l's wrong) case seems to be brought up a lot. To those who point to his case, I'll just say this:
I believe the Regulations should apply equally to world record holders and first-time competitors. A difference in skill should, and does, not engender differing treatment in the eyes of the Regulations.

 

[StephenC]

And the V-cube 7? Can people use that? I would have thought that that would not be allowed because it is pillowed. I understand why it is not banned, but I don't understand how the same logic does not apply to stickerless cubes for blind. I regret that I am bringing this up again, but I would like to know why this is not taken seriously?

 

[MaeLSTRoM]

And the V-cube 7? Can people use that? I would have thought that that would not be allowed because it is pillowed. I understand why it is not banned, but I don't understand how the same logic does not apply to stickerless cubes for blind. I regret that I am bringing this up again, but I would like to know why this is not taken seriously?

I think the confusion comes from the fact they aren't being banned now, but rather weren't legal in competitions to begin with. They should have been banned in all events, including BLD events since the initial banning of them from speed events. What's happening now is a public announcement of this to try and actually set the rules straight (I think)

 

[StephenC]

I think the confusion comes from the fact they aren't being banned now, but rather weren't legal in competitions to begin with. They should have been banned in all events, including BLD events since the initial banning of them from speed events. What's happening now is a public announcement of this to try and actually set the rules straight (I think)

But can't the same reasoning apply to the V-cube 7? I think that it does, and that if stickerless cubes are banned then they should be banned as well. If you will allow me to extend the reasoning, they could have also been illegal from the beginning.

Actually, if you just exclude the part about BLD events, the statement makes perfect sense when you think about it in the context of the V7.

 

[MaeLSTRoM]

But can't the same reasoning apply to the V-cube 7? I think that it does, and that if stickerless cubes are banned then they should be banned as well. If you will allow me to extend the reasoning, they could have also been illegal from the beginning.

Actually, if you just exclude the part about BLD events, the statement makes perfect sense when you think about it in the context of the V7.

The V-7 isn't banned because it was the original 7x7x7 cube, so it doesn't violate this:

No modifications are allowed that enhance the basic concept of a puzzle.

Since the pillowed 7x7 is the original, the basic concept of a 7x7 is pillowed. Also, banning the V-cube would place a monopoly on 7x7 by SS, which I personally think would be very unfair for those who either don't want an SS or Already have a V-cube. Also, If the V-7 was banned since the beginning, there wouldn't be a 7x7x7 event, since there would be no legal cube when it was introduced.

 

[StephenC]

The V-7 isn't banned because it was the original 7x7x7 cube, so it doesn't violate this: Since the pillowed 7x7 is the original, the basic concept of a 7x7 is pillowed. Also, banning the V-cube would place a monopoly on 7x7 by SS, which I personally think would be very unfair for those who either don't want an SS or Already have a V-cube. Also, If the V-7 was banned since the beginning, there wouldn't be a 7x7x7 event, since there would be no legal cube when it was introduced.

I agree that the V7 it is not enhancing the basic concept of that puzzle, but not that the basic concept of a 7x7x7 cube is one that is pillowed. The V7 was the first commercially produced 7x7x7 cube, but probably not the first one ever. That said, I think that the basic concept of a puzzle has nothing to do with the first puzzle of that order that was made.

Current enforcement of regulations would suggest that pillowing puzzles is an enhancement of the basic concept of that puzzle. I think that we should not be making an exception from that for the V7. I think that pillowed puzzles should be allowed in all events, since I think that pillowing a puzzle does not enhance the basic concept. In my opinion, the basic concept of a puzzle does not involve how many pieces are visible at all.

There is a precedent for the banning of puzzles that people want to use. People had bought stickerless cubes for BLD, so there is clearly no issue with not allowing people to use puzzles that they had bought for an event. I think that that was unfair. People have bought lots of stickerless cubes, and (in the wake of the clarification) have decided to take them apart and assemble sets of cubes of a uniform color will still have to buy stickers. If you buy decent quality stickers, that can add up to quite a sum of money. You shouldn't argue that people that have bought the V-7 should not be required to buy a new cube, if you are going to argue that people with stickerless cubes should disassemble, reassemble, and then sticker all of their cubes. That is really unfair.

I don't want a monopoly, but if the regulations are to be enforced equally, the V-7 should not be allowed. Anyway, v-cubes have tried everything in their power to gain a monopoly, which I think was very unfair.

We made the exception because it was the only 7x7x7 available, but it isn't anymore. Since it isn't, I think that we should enforce the regulations equally and ban it.

 

[Kirjava]

http://worldcubeassociation.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=924&p=5424#p5255

Cubic 7x7x7 is now widely available.

We should discuss the issue, but I doubt WRC/WCA want to rock the boat with VCubes.

 

[ThomasJE]

http://worldcubeassociation.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=924&p=5424#p5255

Cubic 7x7x7 is now widely available.

We should discuss the issue, but I doubt WRC/WCA want to rock the boat with VCubes.

What do you mean with 'rocking the boat with VCubes'? If they get annoyed with the banning of the V7, tough.

 

[StephenC]

Does this not perhaps deserve a new thread? I think that it might be a little to off topic for this one, and it would be good to have it discussed.

 

[Kirjava]

What do you mean with 'rocking the boat with VCubes'? If they get annoyed with the banning of the V7, tough.

You are not the WCA.

 

[A Leman]

Question: I just got a black guhong in the mail to replace my colored guhong in comp, but after a corner and edge mod, my cube is still not as good because the core is not as good yet and the Centerpieces sometimes lock-up at 45degrees. My solution was to put the new black pieces on the old core and swap center caps. I can't even tell that It has colored centers. Is this okay by regulations? It is Black and stickered on the outside. Does it matter what is happening in the inside or do I have to wait until the centers become less crappy?

 

[StephenC]

What would the implications be?

We should discuss the issue, but I doubt WRC/WCA want to rock the boat with VCubes.

Do you mean that people would be irritated/frustrated by a ban? Or do you mean that they do not want their paypal accounts to be attacked ? Would you clarify this a little bit?

Also, I think that Thomas was referring to WCA member's response to the suggested ban. Not the WCA board member's reaction, since that would be their decision.

 

[MaeLSTRoM]

Why is it that every discussion thread about the WCA turns into a debate about something completely different that people disagree on. If you want to continue the 7x7 discussion, start a new thread.

Question: I just got a black guhong in the mail to replace my colored guhong in comp, but after a corner and edge mod, my cube is still not as good because the core is not as good yet and the Centerpieces sometimes lock-up at 45degrees. My solution was to put the new black pieces on the old core and swap center caps. I can't even tell that It has colored centers. Is this okay by regulations? It is Black and stickered on the outside. Does it matter what is happening in the inside or do I have to wait until the centers become less crappy?

If you can't see the colours of the centres when you turn, I think it's okay. Not sure though.

 

[StephenC]

I am new to posting. What section would the proposed new thread go under? And would the title "Proposed ban of pillowed 7x7x7 cubes in official WCA competitions" be acceptable?

 

[ThomasJE]

Also, I think that Thomas was referring to WCA member's response to the suggested ban. Not the WCA board member's reaction, since that would be their decision.

That is right. I would personally like to see the banning of V7's. If we ban stickerless cubes in BLD for the sake of consistency, why can't we ban pillowed V7's for the sake of consistency?

I am new to posting. What section would the proposed new thread go under? And would the title "Proposed ban of pillowed 7x7x7 cubes in official WCA competitions" be acceptable?

I would say more along the lines of 'Should we ban pillowed 7x7's?'

 

[StephenC]

A poll possibly? What section would I put it under?