corner insertions help

[fanwuq]

I need help to know where to put corner insertions. So far, I simply solve corners at the end using commutators. For corner insertions, I know you are supposed to find some place in the middle of the solve so you can cancel some moves. But I have trouble seeing how to cycle the pieces in the right orientation when the pieces aren't solved. I understand edge insertions, they are so much easier.
For example, this week's scramble:
(B2 U R2 B2 U' R2 U L2 R2 F2 U' F2 R U F' D L2 B U' R2 F)

My solution:
B L B2 D F' R' B2 R B2 R U B' U R U' x' F' U2 F U R U' R2 F2 R' B2 R F2 R' B2 R2 U R2

I did R2 for premove. The corners I solved at the end. It was pretty nice for me, but there might be better places to do it in the middle and I have no clue where and how.

Scramble: (LB2R2B2L2D2L2R2B2R2U2RF2RB2U2RB2R'F2R2B'L'U2L'B'F'D'L2R')
Solution 1: L2 D' B F' L B' R' U2 R2 U R U2 z' F' U' F R U2 R' U F' U' F z2 D' R U' R' D' R U R' D2 F U F' D F U' F' D2
39 moves
This one ended with a corner 5 cycle. There definitely should be a better way to insert this one.
Could someone provide me with an explanation using either example?

Thanks!

 

[MistArts]

Here's an idea of it.

Scramble with WHITE top - BLUE front: R (U' L' U) R' (U' L U)

For stickering the pieces, I use flags from Staples or cut-up sticky notes.

Put a flag on URF (the green sticker on the top) and write 1 or A on the flag. Now that sticker goes to BUL (the green one on the back), so put another flag there and write 2 or B. Now that sticker goes to BRU (the white sticker in the back) so put another flag there and write 3 or C. Alternatively, you can use FUR -> LBU -> UBR or RFU -> ULB -> RUB.

Solve the cube and scramble it again.

Here's an example of how to solve it.

Scramble from week-31: B2 D B2 D L2 D2 L2 U F2 U B2 L R' D F' U' B2 R D' F' L'

My solution: U' L2 U B2 U L' B' F U z2 R2 U' B U' B2 R2 B R U R' U' R B' R B R B' R B

That leaves 3 corners.

The insertion would best fit here: 2x2x3:U' L2 U B2 * U L' B' F U (9)

Insertion would be: B U' F2 U B' U' F2 U

You can see that after X, Y, X', or Y', the stickers that gets moved have to replace the sticker in the same spot. So that the correct orientation would be given.

If you want to cancel moves out, find a spot where the a commutator starts and/or ends with the same move.

 

[fanwuq]

There really needs to be a forum for FMC discussions. I've seen FMC questions in beginners, speedcubing, BLD, guides, weekly competition, and off topic. And it doesn't really belong in any of the categories. Why does this get moved from speedcubing to beginners, while the thread below gets moved from beginners to speedcubing? Should I have revived that old thread instead, or is it too old??? http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4037&highlight=paiev

 

[cuBerBruce]

There really needs to be a forum for FMC discussions.

There is this forum:
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/fewestmoveschallenge/

 

[ch_ts]

fanwuq, you should really stop using cube rotations in fmc solutions. In your first example, your skeleton solution was:
B L B2 D F' R' B2 R B2 R U B' U R U' x' F' U2 F U R U' R'UR2

which without rotations is:
B L B2 D F' R' B2 R B2 R U B' U R U' U' B2 U B R B' R' B R2 (note U'U' - nasty surprise!)

Rotations also make it difficult to do insertions.

Here's an insertion that does it:
B L B2 D F' R' B2 R B2 R (R'U2RD R'U2RD') U B' U R U2 B2 U B R B' R' B R2
29 htm, 28 stm

 

[fanwuq]

Thanks MistArts and ch_ts! I realized that there was an cancellation a while ago. It's still a bit difficult for me to not use rotations, but I'll try to get used to it.
Nice insertion! What is the usual number of moves you can expect to cancel?
Seeing how to solve the corners immediately is still a bit difficult for me. Sometimes it takes a few tries when I'm not looking at it in the right perspective.
How would you deal with the 5cycle? There are so many possibilities?
How many possible
2x2x3 blocks, other changes in the skeleton, and insertions
do you usually check out during a 1-hour solution?
For now, I check out perhaps 3-10 2x2x3 blocks, closely examine 1 or 2, take back moves freely as I go along for the rest of the skeleton. Sometimes look for corner or edge insertion, sometimes find something not so great, usually just give up and put it at the end. (I'll try to chance this and get better insertions.)

 

[MistArts]

Thanks MistArts and ch_ts! I realized that there was an cancellation a while ago. It's still a bit difficult for me to not use rotations, but I'll try to get used to it.
Nice insertion! What is the usual number of moves you can expect to cancel?
Seeing how to solve the corners immediately is still a bit difficult for me. Sometimes it takes a few tries when I'm not looking at it in the right perspective.
How would you deal with the 5cycle? There are so many possibilities?
How many possible
2x2x3 blocks, other changes in the skeleton, and insertions
do you usually check out during a 1-hour solution?
For now, I check out perhaps 3-10 2x2x3 blocks, closely examine 1 or 2, take back moves freely as I go along for the rest of the skeleton. Sometimes look for corner or edge insertion, sometimes find something not so great, usually just give up and put it at the end. (I'll try to chance this and get better insertions.)

For 5 cycles. Either do 1-2-3, 2-3-4, 3-4-5, 4-5-1, or 5-1-2 and then use the first piece of the cycle. Like 1-2-3 take 1 and cycle it with the other two like 1-4-5.

 

[fanwuq]

Thanks MistArts and ch_ts! I realized that there was an cancellation a while ago. It's still a bit difficult for me to not use rotations, but I'll try to get used to it.
Nice insertion! What is the usual number of moves you can expect to cancel?
Seeing how to solve the corners immediately is still a bit difficult for me. Sometimes it takes a few tries when I'm not looking at it in the right perspective.
How would you deal with the 5cycle? There are so many possibilities?
How many possible
2x2x3 blocks, other changes in the skeleton, and insertions
do you usually check out during a 1-hour solution?
For now, I check out perhaps 3-10 2x2x3 blocks, closely examine 1 or 2, take back moves freely as I go along for the rest of the skeleton. Sometimes look for corner or edge insertion, sometimes find something not so great, usually just give up and put it at the end. (I'll try to chance this and get better insertions.)

For 5 cycles. Either do 1-2-3, 2-3-4, 3-4-5, 4-5-1, or 5-1-2 and then use the first piece of the cycle. Like 1-2-3 take 1 and cycle it with the other two like 1-4-5.

I know that, but trying out all the possibilities would takes such a long time! Any short cuts where you can spend less time on it?

For the sticker idea, I realized that for 3cycles, rather than labeling the pieces 1, 2, 3; you can label all 3 sides of the cubies 1, 2, 3. Where cycling all the 1s solve the cube, or cycling all the 2s or 3s. Keeping track of which direction to cycle is easy and you can always use the inverse if that was wrong. Though solving a 5 cycle will probably have to be your way of labeling (perhaps label all 3 sides with different colors?) Using insertions, I've reduced the FMC203 from 34 moves to 32! I'll still trying all the options to see if it gets any better...
Writing without rotations is easier than I expected!

 

[MistArts]

Thanks MistArts and ch_ts! I realized that there was an cancellation a while ago. It's still a bit difficult for me to not use rotations, but I'll try to get used to it.
Nice insertion! What is the usual number of moves you can expect to cancel?
Seeing how to solve the corners immediately is still a bit difficult for me. Sometimes it takes a few tries when I'm not looking at it in the right perspective.
How would you deal with the 5cycle? There are so many possibilities?
How many possible
2x2x3 blocks, other changes in the skeleton, and insertions
do you usually check out during a 1-hour solution?
For now, I check out perhaps 3-10 2x2x3 blocks, closely examine 1 or 2, take back moves freely as I go along for the rest of the skeleton. Sometimes look for corner or edge insertion, sometimes find something not so great, usually just give up and put it at the end. (I'll try to chance this and get better insertions.)

For 5 cycles. Either do 1-2-3, 2-3-4, 3-4-5, 4-5-1, or 5-1-2 and then use the first piece of the cycle. Like 1-2-3 take 1 and cycle it with the other two like 1-4-5.

I know that, but trying out all the possibilities would takes such a long time! Any short cuts where you can spend less time on it?

For the sticker idea, I realized that for 3cycles, rather than labeling the pieces 1, 2, 3; you can label all 3 sides of the cubies 1, 2, 3. Where cycling all the 1s solve the cube, or cycling all the 2s or 3s. Keeping track of which direction to cycle is easy and you can always use the inverse if that was wrong. Though solving a 5 cycle will probably have to be your way of labeling (perhaps label all 3 sides with different colors?) Using insertions, I've reduced the FMC203 from 34 moves to 32! I'll still trying all the options to see if it gets any better...
Writing without rotations is easier than I expected!

You don't need to label all sides. I don't know how to explain it but you just don't .

 

[fanwuq]

You don't need to label all sides. I don't know how to explain it but you just don't .

I actually didn't label anything for my insertions so far. (Can't I'm using the FMC companion.) I just trace all the pieces visually. Labeling all sides isn't necessary, but i think it would make finding insertions quicker for me.

So far, I actually just write down the stickers to cycle and look for them after each move.

 

[MistArts]

You don't need to label all sides. I don't know how to explain it but you just don't .

I actually didn't label anything for my insertions so far. (Can't I'm using the FMC companion.) I just trace all the pieces visually. Labeling all sides isn't necessary, but i think it would make finding insertions quicker for me.

So far, I actually just write down the stickers to cycle and look for them after each move.

So...you not using a real cube?