Your thoughts on the new Private forum?

[choza244]

I really like the idea, and I think it will succes just if anyone who post something stupid in that forum is taken out from the list.

And what says whauk about the people posting unconstructive things like kirjava with the pictures, I think everybody knows that he is very constructive when they talk seriously, so I don't see why that unconstructive posts would make him out of the list, also with other people with similar cases, they all know that they can't post those things in the private forum, they can do it but not in there and I think everyone in that list knows that.

 

[whauk]

How is that "noise?" The topic is to discuss dealing with cubing terms that need to be cleaned up in some way, and the "F2L" in CFOP certainly falls under that category.

what i read is sth like this: (you can identify the single posts by looking up. i just quote the meaning)
f means "finish F2L"
i dont really know because petrus also uses F2L (ok well that was constructive)
f means "fill slots".
you could also say "four slots"
+1
so whats the matter with "f2l"?
"fill slots" (again *sigh*)

And what says whauk about the people posting unconstructive things like kirjava with the pictures, I think everybody knows that he is very constructive when they talk seriously, so I don't see why that unconstructive posts would make him out of the list, also with other people with similar cases, they all know that they can't post those things in the private forum, they can do it but not in there and I think everyone in that list knows that.

my problem is that some people are allowed to do such things and get accepted in the private forums whereas others get rebuffed for the same "crime". it is not really a fair process that is going on there.
kir's explanation "i will delete some of my posts" is no excuse. it already happened.

 

[a small kitten]

Being motivated to be productive is always good. However, the presentation was a bit jarring. I can kind of see why some of these members felt that they were being excluded even though the announcement post was never meant to be personal.

If all discussion is going to be purely technical, maybe you guys can consider making the section invisible. Making it visible is only going to cause people to feel excluded, even though they probably don't have a single care for debating things that deal with definitions and classifications. The fact that members can physically see their inability to post in certain sections is awkward.

Also, what are the qualifications for posting permission? Does it have to do with technical knowledge or just being able to carry out civil and meaningful discussion? If it's the former, maybe you guys can make that clear so people are aware that they shouldn't feel so excluded. If it's the latter, I worry that it will be too similar to "constructive speedcubing discussion".

 

[AustinReed]

I think the private forum will just increase the amount of stupid threads in the public forum. A lot of people will be trying to prove themselves worthy of the private forum by trying even harder to post even more "innovative" threads like "NEW METHOD FOR SOLVING 3x3."

I guess this would be true, but think about it. It would make the decision of letting a member in much easier.

 

[Weston]

I guess this would be true, but think about it. It would make the decision of letting a member in much easier.

Well, they wouldn't have much to reply to since the threads will be either dumb threads or threads that weren't intended to be constructive.
They would have to make their own threads. Generally, encouraging people to make threads is a bad idea.

 

[CubeLTD]

i understand why you made this forum. but honestly i think it wont help that much: in the whole "cubing terms" discussion i see some posts that i would certainly classify as "noise". (e.g. finding a new f-word for cfop or discussing whether LSE or L6E looks nicer)
also disussing several changes of different terms (and new notation ideas etc.) in one single thread doesnt make much sense to me.

and as talon already said there is a seperation of members. it will be hard to draw a line:

Spoiler

as already mentioned in this thread, thom made some postings that were really unconstructive and (if i was a mod) a good reason for even banning him from the normal forum.
i also do remember a thread where kirjava posted lots of pictures in order to get it closed. this is also an unacceptable form of discussion imo.
dont take this as a personal attack. it is just an example.
on the other hand what qualifies you for being in the private forum? if you have a certain number of constructive postings you will be accepted? if you promote person x you will have to promote person y because he is on (nearly) the same level. will it even be possible to prove oneself's importance if the only important discussions are going on in the private forum? this might be a little far away but when the private forum grows very big, private members will stop interesting in the normal forum and might not even recognise the "new constructive members".

and i also dont like the yellow highlighting in the recent threads section. it looks like s/o is trying to tell us normal people: "hey read this. a private member made another very important statement. dont miss it!"

I completely agree with you on everything you said.

 

[AustinReed]

Weston,
I don't really think you should assume that all the threads are going to be horrible. That's probably worst-case scenario. There probably are going to at least be some constructive threads. (True, I can't assume that either though) For example, this thread is somewhat lol, but it can turn into a rather decent conversation. The people that would be eligible to be in the private forum would stand out, because they'd be the only ones making contributions.

 

[choza244]

my problem is that some people are allowed to do such things and get accepted in the private forums whereas others get rebuffed for the same "crime". it is not really a fair process that is going on there.
kir's explanation "i will delete some of my posts" is no excuse. it already happened.

Ok I understand your point, but just think about this, what would happen if Jorghi were accepted to post in the private forum... and if you think about it, Jorghi an Kirjava both have posted stupid thinks on the forum, but the difference is that you know that Kirjava (in this case) will post useful information in that forum, but you also know that Jorghi would post such stupid, useless and misleading comments. I think is fair how the poeple where chose, but also thinks that if someone wants to enter they should accept him and take him out in case that is just posting crap. (just my opinion BTW)

 

[RNewms27]

As long as I don't see the news feed full of wonderful topics I that I can't be a part of, it could be a decent change. Making a thread there should have the same rules as posting one at all, only if it is necessary and there is no similar thread. Ex. "Private members accomplishment thread." Though I doubt it will happen, ya never know.

 

[RaresB]

We should make a thread that is the same in p
"private" and mainstream ss. It would be interesting to see how they would play out

 

[PatrickJameson]

Ex. "Private members accomplishment thread."

This isn't a separate community. It's just a subset of the forum discussing topics.

Also, we're not done adding people. Ideally we want to add as many people as possible without creating clutter. So don't worry too much if you're not in yet. And I hope people can be mature about not being included.

There will soon be some kind of application process where anyone can request access to the forum. And if you're not chosen, you can work to improve. That's really the goal of this section: to get people to aspire to be able to post here. I think it's extremely reasonable of us to ask members to be mature and have the ability to converse well while being constructive. That's really all we're looking for. As Erik mentioned, it's not only knowing when and what to post, but also knowing when not to post.

 

[aronpm]

and i also dont like the yellow highlighting in the recent threads section. it looks like s/o is trying to tell us normal people: "hey read this. a private member made another very important statement. dont miss it!"

I don't think that the highlight is supposed to say that "a private member made another very important statement", it's supposed to show which threads on the Recent Threads section will not have pages of non-constructive posts hiding the actual discussion of the thread.

As long as I don't see the news feed full of wonderful topics I that I can't be a part of, it could be a decent change. Making a thread there should have the same rules as posting one at all, only if it is necessary and there is no similar thread. Ex. "Private members accomplishment thread." Though I doubt it will happen, ya never know.

I can't see the private forum becoming that large and active. There will be a form to submit an application to join the private forum. If you can't meet the (so far unwritten, to my knowledge) requirements, you're not deemed 'eligible' to comment on these "wonderful topics" because your posts would most likely be counterproductive to the entire idea behind the private forum.

There will also not be any such as a "private members accomplishment thread", because pjk wrote this:

We are looking forward to quality discussion, and only posts that actually mean something or contribute something instead of "yeah" or "+1" or "go search first". If someone does this, they will be removed, no questions asked.

A private accomplishment thread doesn't constitute quality discussion or contribution and would be removed.

P.S: When I say "you" I am not referring to you personally.

 

[StachuK1992]

I would love love love this:
Private section -> no avatars, no sigs, no crap to the left of the post.
Just username left, post on right.

I would love this so much. It would just look beautiful.

 

[Weston]

Weston,
I don't really think you should assume that all the threads are going to be horrible. That's probably worst-case scenario. There probably are going to at least be some constructive threads. (True, I can't assume that either though) For example, this thread is somewhat lol, but it can turn into a rather decent conversation. The people that would be eligible to be in the private forum would stand out, because they'd be the only ones making contributions.

I think the threads will be eventually almost all horrible. The only people that post constructive threads are the people in the private forum, and if they aren't in the private forum, by its current requirements they should be. Once members are in the private forum, what motivation would they have to post their threads in the public forum? Eventually all of the good threads will be in the private forum and the public forum will be left with all crap threads. Because of this the public forum can only be decent if the member list to the the private forum is incomplete. So you have one of two situations:
1. The private forum's member list is incomplete and some people who could greatly contribute to a discussion in the private forum are unable to do so,
or 2. The private forum's member list contains everyone that it should, but newer members are unable to interact and learn from more knowledgeable members since they're only allowed to post in crap threads about what color cross they use because the public forum is so terrible.
Kind of a lose-lose situation.


Sure Thom's threads that could have good discussions tend to be cluttered with useless and stupid replies, but so what?
Deal with it.

 

[PatrickJameson]

I think the threads will be eventually almost all horrible. The only people that post constructive threads are the people in the private forum, and if they aren't in the private forum, by its current requirements they should be. Once members are in the private forum, what motivation would they have to post their threads in the public forum? Eventually all of the good threads will be in the private forum and the public forum will be left with all crap threads. Because of this the public forum can only be decent if the member list to the the private forum is incomplete. So you have one of two situations:
1. The private forum's member list is incomplete and some people who could greatly contribute to a discussion in the private forum are unable to do so,
or 2. The private forum's member list contains everyone that it should, but newer members are unable to interact and learn from more knowledgeable members since they're only allowed to post in crap threads about what color cross they use because the public forum is so terrible.
Kind of a lose-lose situation.


Sure Thom's threads that could have good discussions tend to be cluttered with useless and stupid replies, but so what?
Deal with it.

You have very good points and I have thought of this. I think it would be best to let it play out and see where it goes. It's more successful than I thought it would be at this point. Already I love the only thread in the section. If we can keep that up I could call it a success.

Really, the worst case scenario is we dissolve it into the Constructive Discussion forum. By no means is any change to this site set in stone. If something doesn't work, we'll change it.

 

[Mudkip]

The concept of a forum like that sounds like a good idea, but the point of having an online cubing community is to have cubers interact with each other. Why should we exclude most of our members?

 

[Weston]

You have very good points and I have thought of this. I think it would be best to let it play out and see where it goes. It's more successful than I thought it would be at this point. Already I love the only thread in the section. If we can keep that up I could call it a success.

Really, the worst case scenario is we dissolve it into the Constructive Discussion forum. By no means is any change to this site set in stone. If something doesn't work, we'll change it.

Fair enough.

But already, the most recent thread about commutators should definitely not be in the private forum if it's intention is to teach people about commutators. Since most of the people in the private forum know a decent amount about commutators (At least I hope they do) the only people that could learn from the thread are the people that aren't allowed to post replies and ask questions.


EDIT: nvm I guess

 

[Yuxuibbs]

it seems like this is just trying to get people motivated to post better until they get in the private forums. after they get in they might just slack off and go back to posting the spam, off topic things, trolls, and stuff.

some people might feel left out if they cant be part of the private forum and want to contribute a really cool idea but they cant because its a private forum.

the people that just started using speedsolving might learn to look at the private forum threads first since there's less crap to sift through and more actual discussion (kinda like this thread)

 

[StachuK1992]

That thread's a collective formation of a tutorial.
Once it's done, it'll be published appropriately.

 

[PatrickJameson]

But already, the most recent thread about commutators should definitely not be in the private forum if it's intention is to teach people about commutators. Since most of the people in the private forum know a decent amount about commutators (At least I hope they do) the only people that could learn from the thread are the people that aren't allowed to post replies and ask questions.

Not exactly. The point of the thread is to outline a decent tutorial for people who don't know much about commutators. Doing this in a relatively noise free environment is much more constructive than the alternative.

How would we go about teaching this very very important subject to noobs, with everything they could need to know?