Non-Permuting OLL Algorithms, Improving PLL look ahead

[Jorghi]

I was trying to find a way to predict the PLL case during OLL, and it just takes too much to know how each OLL affects permutation, so I tried seeing if I could Ignore Permutation completely, and made these algorithms(Cube Explorer).

Because of these I can sometimes make a 2x1 last layer block to control permutation but I just get lucky most times. But I think this is good for people who are obsessed with look ahead(not me).

Spoiler

Permutation Ignoring 2Look OLLs:
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<NPOLL 27/S/Sune>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>:
2G:
U' R2 U R U' R U2 R U' R U2 R U' R U R2 U2 (17f*)
U' R2 U R' U R U2 R U2 R U R' U R2 U R' U2 (17f*)
U' R' U R2 U R' U R U2 R U2 R U R' U R2 U2 (17f*)
R' U R' U R2 U R' U R2 U R' U R U2 R U2 R2 (17f*)
R' U' R U R2 U R2 U R U' R U2 R U' R U2 R2 (17f*)

3G:
U L2 U L U' L U2 L U' L U2 L U' L U L2 (16f*)
U L2 U L' U L U2 L U2 L U L' U L2 U L' (16f*)
U L' U L2 U L' U L U2 L U2 L U L' U L2 (16f*)
U2 L' U2 R U' L U' L' U2 R' U2 L U' R U' R' (16f*)
R U' L' U' L2 U' R2 U L2 U' R2 U' R' U' L U (16f*)
R' U2 L U' R U' R' U2 L' U2 R U' L U' L' U2 (16f*)
U R' U' R U' L U2 R' U2 L' U' L U' R U2 L' U (17f)

Optimal:
U2 F' U' F2 R' F' R2 U' R' (9f*)
B' U' B2 L' B' L2 U' L' U2 (9f*)
B' R2 D' R' D2 B' D' B2 R' (9f*)
U R' U' R2 B' R' B2 U' B' U (10f)
U R' U' R2 B' D B' D' B2 R' (10f)
U R' F2 D' F' D F' R2 U' R' (10f)
U2 F' U' F U' R2 B' R' B R' (10f)
U2 F' L F' L' F2 U' R U' R' (10f)
U' L' U' L2 F' L' F2 U' F' U' (10f)
B' U' B U' L2 F' L' F L' U2 (10f)




<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<NPOLL 26/-S/Anti-Sune>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>:
2G:
U' R U' R2 U' R U' R' U2 R' U2 R' U' R U' R2 (16f*)
U' R2 U' R U' R' U2 R' U2 R' U' R U' R2 U' R (16f*)
U' R2 U' R' U R' U2 R' U R' U2 R' U R' U' R2 (16f*)

3G:
U2 R U2 L' U R' U R U2 L U2 R' U L' U L (16f*)
U' R U' R2 U' R U' R' U2 R' U2 R' U' R U' R2 (16f*)
U' R2 U' R U' R' U2 R' U2 R' U' R U' R2 U' R (16f*)
U' R2 U' R' U R' U2 R' U R' U2 R' U R' U' R2 (16f*)
L U2 R' U L' U L U2 R U2 L' U R' U R U2 (16f*)
L' U R U R2 U L2 U' R2 U L2 U L U R' U' (16f*)

Optimal:
U2 F U F2 L F L2 U L (9f*)
B U B2 R B R2 U R U2 (9f*)
B L2 D L D2 B D B2 L (9f*)
U R U R2 F R F2 U F U (10f)
U2 F U F' U L2 B L B' L (10f)
U2 F R' F R F2 U L' U L (10f)
U' L U L2 B D' B D B2 L (10f)
U' L U L2 B L B2 U B U' (10f)
U' L F2 D F D' F L2 U L (10f)
B U B2 R D' R D R2 B U' (10f)
B U B' U R2 F R F' R U2 (10f)
B L2 D F' D F D2 L B' L (10f)
B L2 D L D' L B2 U B U' (10f)
B L' B D2 R D R' D B2 L (10f)
B L' B L B2 U R' U R U2 (10f)




<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<NPOLL 21/H/Double Sune>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>:
2G:
U R U R2 U' R2 U' R U2 R U2 R U' R2 U' R2 U R (18f*)
U' R' U' R2 U R2 U R' U2 R' U2 R' U R2 U R2 U' R' (18f*)

3G:
U R U R2 U' R2 U' R U2 R U2 R U' R2 U' R2 U R (18f*)
U L U L2 U' L2 U' L U2 L U2 L U' L2 U' L2 U L (18f*)

Optimal:
U R F' U2 F U2 R B D2 F' L U2 F D2 B' (15f*)
U R2 B' R' B U' F R2 U R U' R2 F' U R' (15f*)
U R' U B' R2 U' R U R2 B U' F R' F' R2 (15f*)




<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<NPOLL 22/Pi/Wheel>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>:
2G:
R U R2 U' R2 U' R2 U2 R2 U' R' U R U2 R' U (16f*)
R' U' R2 U R2 U R2 U2 R2 U R U' R' U2 R U' (16f*)

3G:
U L' U2 L U L' U' L2 U2 L2 U' L2 U' L2 U L (16f*)
U' L U2 L' U' L U L2 U2 L2 U L2 U L2 U' L' (16f*)
R U R2 U' R2 U' R2 U2 R2 U' R' U R U2 R' U (16f*)
R' U' R2 U R2 U R2 U2 R2 U R U' R' U2 R U' (16f*)

Optimal:
F R U R' U' F' B' R' U' R U B (12f*)
F' U' L' U L F B U L U' L' B' (12f*)
B U L U' L' F' B' U' L' U L F (12f*)
B' R' U' R U F B R U R' U' F' (12f*)
U R U B U' B' R' U' F' U' L' U L F (14f)
U R U B U' B' R' L' U' B' U B L U' (14f)
U R' F' U' F U R U' F R U R' U' F' (14f)
U R' F' U' F U R L F U F' U' L' U' (14f)
U L F U F' U' R' L' F' U' F U R U' (14f)
U L F U F' U' L' U' B' R' U' R U B (14f)
U L' U' B' U B R L U B U' B' R' U' (14f)
U L' U' B' U B L U' B U L U' L' B' (14f)




<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<NPOLL 23/U/Headlights>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>:
2G:U R U2 R U2 R' U R' U2 R U2 R U R' U' R' (16f*)
U R U2 R U2 R' U' R U' R' U2 R' U2 R U R' (16f*)
U' R2 U' R' U R U R' U' R2 U' R2 U R' U R2 (16f*)
U' R2 U' R' U R' U' R2 U R2 U R U' R U R2 (16f*)

3G:
U R L U2 L' U' R' U2 R L U L' U R' (14f*)
U R L U2 L' U' L U' R' L' U2 R U R' (14f*)
U' R' L' U2 R U R' U R L U2 L' U' L (14f*)
U' R' L' U2 R U L U2 R' L' U' R U' L (14f*)

Optimal:
U F D' F2 U L2 U' L2 F U' F2 D F2 (13f*)
U L2 U B U' B2 D L2 D' L2 B U' L2 (13f*)
U L2 D L U' L2 D F2 D' F2 L D' L2 (13f*)
U L2 B' U B2 D' B2 U' B' D B2 U' L2 (13f*)
U L2 B' D L2 D' L2 D' B' D B2 U' L2 (13f*)
U2 B U2 F' U L2 F' L2 F U2 B' U F (13f*)
U2 B U2 B' R U2 F' U2 F R2 B' R B (13f*)
U2 B U2 B' R2 F R' F' U2 F' U2 F R' (13f*)
U2 B U2 B' R2 F R' B' R2 F' R2 B R' (13f*)
U2 B' U2 F U' R2 F R2 F' U2 B U' F' (13f*)
U2 B' U2 B L2 F' L F U2 F U2 F' L (13f*)
U2 B' U2 B L2 F' L B L2 F L2 B' L (13f*)
U2 B' U2 B L' U2 F U2 F' L2 B L' B' (13f*)
U' R2 U' B' U B2 D' R2 D R2 B' U R2 (13f*)
U' R2 D' R' U R2 D' F2 D F2 R' D R2 (13f*)
U' R2 B U' B2 D B2 U B D' B2 U R2 (13f*)
U' R2 B D' R2 D R2 D B D' B2 U R2 (13f*)
U' F' D F2 U' R2 U R2 F' U F2 D' F2 (13f*)
R U2 R F' D2 F R' U2 R F' D2 F R2 (13f*)
R D' R2 U F2 U' F2 R U' R2 D R2 U (13f*)
R D' R2 U F2 U' F2 R D' F2 D F2 D (13f*)





<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<NPOLL 24/T/Shark>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>:
2G:
U R' U R U2 R' U2 R' U' R U' R' U2 R U2 R (16f*)
U R' U' R' U R U2 R U2 R' U R' U2 R U2 R (16f*)
U' R U R U' R' U2 R' U2 R U' R U2 R' U2 R' (16f*)
U' R U' R' U2 R U2 R U R' U R U2 R' U2 R' (16f*)
R U R' U R U2 R' U2 R' U' R U' R' U2 R U2 (16f*)
R U R' U' R' U R U2 R U2 R' U R' U2 R U2 (16f*)
R' U' R U R U' R' U2 R' U2 R U' R U2 R' U2 (16f*)
R' U' R U' R' U2 R U2 R U R' U R U2 R' U2 (16f*)

3G:
U R' U R U2 R' L' U' L U' L' U2 R L (14f*)
U R' U L' U R L U2 R' U' L' U2 R L (14f*)
U' R U' R' U2 R L U L' U L U2 R' L' (14f*)
U' R U' L U' R' L' U2 R U L U2 R' L' (14f*)
R U R' U R U2 R' L' U' L U' L' U2 L (14f*)
R U R' U L' U R L U2 R' U' L' U2 L (14f*)
R' U' R U' R' U2 R L U L' U L U2 L' (14f*)
R' U' R U' L U' R' L' U2 R U L U2 L' (14f*)

Optimal:U L2 U' F L2 D' L2 D F2 U' F U L2 (13f*)
U L2 U' F2 D F' U' F2 D' F2 U F' L2 (13f*)
U L2 U' F2 D F' D' L2 D' L2 D F' L2 (13f*)
U L2 D' L B2 D' B2 D L2 U' L D L2 (13f*)
U B2 D B2 U' B L2 U' L2 U B2 D' B (13f*)
U2 R U L' U2 R B2 R' B2 U R' U2 L (13f*)
U2 R' U' L U2 R' F2 R F2 U' R U2 L' (13f*)
U2 F' R U2 R' U2 R' F' R F2 L' U2 L (13f*)




<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<NPOLL 25/L/Bowtie>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>:
2G:U R' U2 R U2 R U R' U' R' U R U2 R U2 R' (16f*)
U' R U' R' U2 R' U2 R U R' U R U2 R U2 R' (16f*)
R U R2 U2 R2 U' R' U R' U' R2 U2 R2 U R U' (16f*)
R2 U R U' R U R2 U2 R2 U' R' U R' U' R2 U2 (16f*)
R' U R U2 R U2 R' U R' U2 R U2 R U R' U' (16f*)
R' U R U2 R U2 R' U' R U' R' U2 R' U2 R U (16f*)

3G:U' R U' R' L' U2 L U R U2 R' L' U' L (14f*)
U' R U' R' L' U2 L U L' U R L U2 R' (14f*)
U' L' U2 R L U R' U R U2 R' L' U' L (14f*)
U' L' U2 R L U R' U L' U R L U2 R' (14f*)
R' U R L U2 L' U' R' U2 R L U L' U (14f*)
R' U R L U2 L' U' L U' R' L' U2 R U (14f*)
L U2 R' L' U' R U' R' U2 R L U L' U (14f*)
L U2 R' L' U' R U' L U' R' L' U2 R U (14f*)

Optimal:
U2 R F' D2 F R' U2 R F' D2 F R' (12f*)
U2 F' R D2 R' F U2 F' R D2 R' F (12f*)
L B' D2 B L' U2 L B' D2 B L' U2 (12f*)
B' L D2 L' B U2 B' L D2 L' B U2 (12f*)

 

[Hershey]

Predicting PLL before OLL?

Reminds me of R-OLL.

"R-OLL (Recognition before OLL) is a technique which allows to anticipate the PLL type before OLL."

 

[Ltsurge]

Is it just me or is Jorghi going on about really complicated stuff that I just don't get?

 

[Sa967St]

Learning all this to spend a few extra seconds on OLL in order to save less than a second on PLL doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Hershey]

Learning all this to spend a few extra seconds on OLL in order to save less than a second on PLL doesn't make sense to me.

Jorghi's algs have a really high move count? Yeah, this really isn't worth it.

 

[Jorghi]

Jorghi's algs have a really high move count? Yeah, this really isn't worth it.

Yeah but I used Cube Explorer so I can't use any double turns/rotations or anything like the normal OLLs.

 

[JyH]

This is pointless. You're doing extra moves, and in the time that you're doing those extra moves, you could've recognized the PLL already.

 

[Jorghi]

The 2 and 3 G algorithms have high movecount. Other than that its only about 3-4 moves extra than the original algorithms(Not using double turns/slice turns).

For example if you made the normal headlights OLL 2G <R,U> then it would be this optimally

U' R' U R' U' R' U R U R' U2 R U2 R U' R (16f*)

 

[JyH]

The 2 and 3 G algorithms have high movecount. Other than that its only about 3-4 moves extra than the original algorithms(Not using double turns/slice turns).

For example if you made the normal headlights OLL 2G <R,U> then it would be this optimally

U' R' U R' U' R' U R U R' U2 R U2 R U' R (16f*)

Yes, but those optimal algorithms are not really fingertrick friendly, and would be performed much slower than the usual algorithm that someone uses.

 

[Jostle]

Ugh...
You'd still have to spend time recognizing the PLL, possibly more time since it would be confusing with flipped pieces everywhere + longer algs.

Are you trolling? No, really, I want to know.

 

[Jorghi]

Yes, but those optimal algorithms are not really fingertrick friendly, and would be performed much slower than the usual algorithm that someone uses.

I blame Cube Explorer for that

Ugh...
You'd still have to spend time recognizing the PLL, possibly more time since it would be confusing with flipped pieces everywhere + longer algs.

Are you trolling? No, really, I want to know.

How are pieces going to be flipped everywhere? The algs are not much longer at all, 3-4 moves. And I used cube explorer and didn't look for finger trick algorithms so you can't really say anything unless you check yourself.
Edit:Lol haha, I didn't think about full OLL. I use 2 look OLL with Edge orientation.

But Dot cases and edge orientated cases would be the easiest ones to predict PLL.

 

[tozies24]

Why don't you just learn COLL if you already get the edges oriented after you finish your F2L? That would result in a very easy PLLs (z, h, or u perms) and then you wouldn't have to worry about all the other stupid PLLs like the g's, n's, etc.

 

[Jostle]

Ok, so go away, find good algs, practice it and become good at it, determine if it's good or not, THEN come back to me.
I'm saying, that you still have to recognize PLL either way, and it's probably harder when the pieces aren't oriented. So why spend more time recognizing PLL only so you could use bad algs? It makes no sense.

 

[JyH]

Ok, so go away, find good algs, practice it and become good at it, determine if it's good or not, THEN come back to me.
I'm saying, that you still have to recognize PLL either way, and it's probably harder when the pieces aren't oriented. So why spend more time recognizing PLL only so you could use bad algs? It makes no sense.

I completely agree. Recognizing PLL at OLL would take more time than just recognizing the PLL itself, and would be slower.

 

[jiggy]

Didn't Kir do something like this at one point and call it "Pure OLL"? I can't for the life of me find it...

 

[5BLD]

Eh? You'd rather orient edges first and do COLL,
Or, for me, I do CLLELL, and CLL is recognised during F2L... Then ELL I can at least predict orientation.
I find this easier to recognise than OLLPLL.

 

[chrissyD]

i do this

find the oll as fast as i can - execute oll as fast as i can - find pll as fast as i can - execute pll as fast as i can

seems like the best way to me. i avg 5-6 seconds for the last layer and it would be faster if my tps didn't suck

 

[RCTACameron]

Didn't Kir do something like this at one point and call it "Pure OLL"? I can't for the life of me find it...

http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?22862-Random-Cubing-Discussion/page8

But this way, you do PLL, ignoring orientation, then Pure OLL.

 

[Kirjava]

Didn't Kir do something like this at one point and call it "Pure OLL"? I can't for the life of me find it...

Yeah, generated the algs and didn't post them (except some of the interesting short ones) because they suck.

PureOLL is not a good step.

 

[wontolla]

If you are going to put some effort in recognizing PLLs, I suggest this: