Legalize Marijuana?

Legalize Marijuana?


  • Total voters
    112
We have a huge problem with drugs in Mexico. And it is not only marijuana, but also cocaine, etc. This problem has evolved in the last years, turning every day more violent than the last. The problem with these drug cartels is that their money an power has extended and corrupted the authorities. Recently a sum of 380 BILLION dollars was discovered to be laundred in a foreign bank. An this money came from only ONE cartel.
I think a way to stop this source of illegal income is by legalizing not only marihuana but other drugs also. This way addicts could be treated both physically and mentally. These people are ill, and they need help. Drugs have ever existed, and will always do. Why not to take advantage of this kind of market and legalize it? This way the government could regulate the sell and consume of these products and receive taxes for it.
There will always be problems to solve, but I think that the drug problem has gotten out of control (at least here in Mexico, and maybe soon in the USA).Let's stop overreacting and demonizing drug consume. Why accept tobacco and alcohol and not marihuana?. In the end it all comes to a personal decision to consume or not to consume drugs.
 

I feel like this whole "depression" affect holds some validity, but I have never heard of a reaction like this. However, I don't think this depression is from a contact high, because to obtain one, you would have to be put in an extremely smoky room. Most of the smoke was probably plant matter, with very little THC still left, so in short, it could just be how smoke in general affects your brain, and not necessarily marijuana smoke. Pot does affect everyone differently, but that usually refers to the high you get from smoking it. I'm sure if you smoked it, you may get the same depression affects from your past experiences, or you may not. I just find this reaction extremely odd, and I don't think it's a very prevalent phenomenon (I've never heard of anything like it!).
 
He already addressed this. He said that it's about how second hand smoke can affect someone like children, but you can't get second hand drunk.

Yes, I realize what he was saying. I was demonstrating some of the ways in which alcohol does cause more harm to others than marijuana.

Even so, I think someone who smoked marijuana daily (not around children) would be a much better parent than one who drinks. Think about it from the perspective of a child: Assuming your parent either drank OR smoked after you went to bed. You get up late at night because you can't sleep. Would you prefer to make your way downstairs to see your father/mother passed out on a couch, and have them stumble around disoriented when you awake them? Or would you rather come downstairs and see your father/mother microwaving their 3rd bowl of popcorn while maintaining their ability to take care of you?
 
What would a small child do growing up in a weed smoking household? Yes, I agree that not all children would feel the same effects that I do. Weed affects people differently. But if even a small percentage of children would feel symptoms of depression similar to what I feel when breathing in second hand weed smoke, and the worst part is that they might not know why, then I think it should not be legalized. To be clear, I think it should be illegal to smoke weed inside your own home when you have children, but since this would be nearly impossible to enforce, I feel that weed not being legalized would be necessary to achieve the goal that it not be smoked in a home with a family living there.

There are already laws in place for negligence and child abuse that could be expanded to cover this kind of thing. The kind of person who is negligent enough to smoke in front of their kids is not the kind of person who is going to be put off by marijuana being illegal. Many children are injured/killed in car accidents while their parents are driving, should we make cars illegal? Perhaps a bit of a hyperbole, but the point is that a lot of things are going to have collateral damage. Prohibition is not going to prevent it any more than legalization is going to cause it.

Now going back to your experience, firstly I will say that yes, inhaling secondhand smoke does give the effects to some extent. What would are defining as a "significant amount" of secondhand smoke? As in, how much was your roommate smoking/how hazy was the air etc. It seems strange that the symptoms would arise 3-4 days later, when typically the effects start within 30 minutes and abate within a few hours. Someone with an active lifestyle who is not a regular smoker can pass a drug test just 5 days after smoking a joint(it has left their brain long before that), so I doubt that what you were feeling was a direct effect of the THC. The only thing I can think of is that it is either a placebo effect, or the delayed effects of your body's processes removing the THC. Also the symptoms you are describing are so far from the common effects of marijuana that I feel obligated to ask if you are certain your roommate was only smoking marijuana.

And in my opinion, the sociological/psychological effects of having an unstable, angry, abusive alcoholic parent are far worse than those that may arise from secondhand marijuana smoke.

Yeah, no 10 second times if you have been solving and smoking a while.

Totally false. Along with everything else you said.
 
Prove Me Wrong

There are over 10,000 scientific studies that prove marijuana is a harmful addictive drug. There is not one reliable study that demonstrates marijuana has any medical value.

Marijuana is an unstable mixture of more than 425 chemicals that convert to thousands when smoked. Many of these chemicals are toxic, psychoactive chemicals which are largely unstudied and appear in uncontrolled strengths.

The harmful consequences of smoking marijuana include, but are not limited to the following: premature cancer, addiction, coordination and perception impairment, a number of mental disorders including depression, hostility and increased aggresiveness, general apathy, memory loss, reproductive disabilities, and impairment to the immune system.

The Food and Drug Administration, the Drug Enforcement Administration and the U.S. Public Health Service have rejected smoking crude marijuana as a medicine. Medical marijuana has been promoted for "compassionate use" to assist people with cancer, AIDS and glaucoma. Scientific studies show the opposite is true; marijuana is damaging to individuals with these illnesses. In fact, people suffering with AIDS and glaucoma are being used unfairly by groups whose real agenda is to legalize marijuana.

AIDS: Scientific studies indicate marijuana damages the immune system, causing further peril to already weakened immune systems. HIV-positive marijuana smokers progress to full-blown AIDS twice as fast as non-smokers and have an increased incidence of bacterial pneumonia.

Cancer: Marijuana contains many cancer-causing substances, many of which are present in higher concentrations in marijuana than in tobacco.

Glaucoma: Marijuana does not prevent blindness due to glaucoma.

Marijuana is currently up to 25 times more potent than it was in the 1960's, making the drug even more addictive.

Americans take their medicine in pills, solutions, sprays, shots, drops, creams, and sometimes in suppositories, but never by smoking. No medicine prescribed for us today is smoked.

The main psychoactive ingredient in marijuana, THC (Tetra Hydrocannibinol), is already legally available in pharmaceutical capsule form by prescription from medical doctors. This drug, Marinol, is less often prescribed because of the potential adverse effects, and there are more effective new medicines currently available.

While a biomedical or casual relationship between marijuana and the use of hard drugs has not been established, the statistical association is quite convincing. 12 to 17 year-olds who smoke marijuana are 85 times more likely to use cocaine than those who do not. 60% of adolescents who use marijuana before age 15 will later use cocaine. These correlations are many times higher than the initial relationships found between smoking and lung cancer.

Major medical and health organizations, as well as the vast majority of nationally recognized expert medical doctors, scientists and researchers, have concluded that smoking marijuana is not a safe and effective medicine. These organizations include: the American Medical Association, the American Cancer Society, National Sclerosis Association, the American Glaucoma Association, American Academy of Opthalmology, National Eye Institute, and the National Cancer Institute.

In 1994, a U.S. Court of Appeals ruled that marijuana should remain a Schedule I drug: highly addictive with no medical usefulness. The court noted that the pro-marijuana physicians had relied on non-scientific evidence.

Political Issues: The California and Arizona Ballot Initiatives.

California's Proposition 215, The Compassionate Use Act of 1996, states: "Section 11357 (criminal penalties), relating to the possession of marijuana, and Section 11358 (criminal penalties), relating to the cultivation of marijuana, shall not apply to a patient, or to a patient's primary caregiver, who possess or cultivates marijuana for the personal medical purposes of the patient upon the written or oral recommendation or approval of a physician."

Arizona's Proposition 200, the Drug Medicalization, Prevention, and Control Act of 1996, states: "We must toughen Arizona's laws against violent criminals on drugs. Any person who commits a violent crime while under the influence of illegal drugs should serve 100% of his or her sentence with absolutely no early release." The proposition then goes on to say doctors may be permitted "to prescribe Schedule I controlled substances to treat a disease, or to relieve the pain and suffering of seriously ill and terminally ill patients."

Both of these ballot initiatives passed, with 56% support for Prop. 215 and 65% support for Prop. 200.

The language in these ballot initiatives for California and Arizona are so loosely worded that they basically legalize marijuana for everyone, sick or well, adult or child. Physicians will be able to legally dispense marijuana for migraines, depression or any other ailments.

Legalizing marijuana through the political process bypasses the safeguards established by the Food and Drug Administration to protect the public from dangerous or ineffective drugs. Every other prescribed drug must be tested according to scientifically rigorous protocols to ensure that it is safe and effective before it can be sold.

The California ballot initiative will make marijuana available without a written prescription, bypassing all established medical guidelines for dispensing drugs. The Arizona ballot initiative will legalize all Schedule I drugs for medical use. Schedule I drugs are drugs that have a high potential for abuse and have no currently accepted medical use in treatment. Examples of Schedule I drugs are marijuana, LSD and heroin. Under Arizona's proposition all of these drugs would be essentially legalized for any so-called medical use.

Both of these laws allow for the possession of marijuana for medicinal purposes, however, buying and selling marijuana will remain illegal.

These ballot initiatives were passed through a major disinformation campaign financed by wealthy individuals from outside these states. The billionaire financier George Soros gave over half a million dollars to support these initiatives. Other significant contributors include George Zimmer, president and CEO of the Men's Warehouse clothing store chain, Peter Lewis of The Progressive Corporation Insurance company in Ohio, and John Sperling, CEO of the Apollo Group, a Phoenix holding company for numerous educational institutions.

The true agenda for Prop. 215 and 200 is revealed when you examine the backers of these initiatives. The National Organization to Reform Marijuana Laws (NORML), the Drug Policy Foundation and the Cannabis Buyers Club in San Francisco have spearheaded the passage of the propositions. The radical legalization agenda of these groups leaves little doubt about their broader goal to legalize marijuana and other drugs. As reported in High Times magazine, the director of NORML expressly stated that the medical use of marijuana is an interal part of the strategy to legalize marijuana. A former director of NORML told an Emory University audience that NORML would be using the issue of medicinal marijuana as a red herring to give marijuana a good name.

Social and Cultural Issues:
The medical marijuana movement and its million dollar media campaign have helped contribute to the changing attitude among our youth that marijuana use is harmless. This softening in anti-drug attitudes among teens has led to a 140% increase in marijuana use among high school seniors from 94'-95'.
The pro-legalization organizations behind these ballot initiatives deny that there is a drug problem among our youth. As much as they seek to focus on people suffering with illnesses, we must keep the debate properly centered on the safety of our kids. In a time where drug use among kids has increased 78% in the last four years, this country cannot afford to undermine drug prevention efforts with these pro marijuana ballot initiatives.

The strategy to link marijuana with current legal substances such as alcohol and tobacco is used regularly by the pro-legalization groups. The response to this argument is to state that current use among teens is 50% for alcohol, 34% for tobacco and 19% for marijuana. If we want to see marijuana use among youth equal to alcohol and tobacco, then we should go ahead and legalize marijuana.

Legalizing marijuana would add a third drug that combines some of the most serious risks of alcohol and tobacco. Marijuana offers both the intoxicating effects of alcohol and the long-term lung damage of tobacco.

Tobacco companies similarly advertised cigarettes as medicinal until the Federal Trad Commision put a stop to it in 1955. Medicinal marijuana is the "Joe Camel" of the promarijuana lobby, since it is children, the first time users, who are most impressed by these erroneous health claims.

I'm sure that this will get alot of you all heated up but let's try and keep this on an intelligent level please.

Now convince me i'm wrong!
 
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We have a huge problem with drugs in Mexico. And it is not only marijuana, but also cocaine, etc. This problem has evolved in the last years, turning every day more violent than the last. The problem with these drug cartels is that their money an power has extended and corrupted the authorities. Recently a sum of 380 BILLION dollars was discovered to be laundred in a foreign bank. An this money came from only ONE cartel.
I think a way to stop this source of illegal income is by legalizing not only marihuana but other drugs also. This way addicts could be treated both physically and mentally. These people are ill, and they need help. Drugs have ever existed, and will always do. Why not to take advantage of this kind of market and legalize it? This way the government could regulate the sell and consume of these products and receive taxes for it.
There will always be problems to solve, but I think that the drug problem has gotten out of control (at least here in Mexico, and maybe soon in the USA).Let's stop overreacting and demonizing drug consume. Why accept tobacco and alcohol and not marihuana?. In the end it all comes to a personal decision to consume or not to consume drugs.

I would like to extend a sincere apology for what my country's policies have done to your country. I feel terrible for the situation the Mexican people have been put in. I sincerely hope that this is at least a point of debate in the coming elections.
 
I voted no. I have a number of friends that have smoked it from their teens and now 15 years later are still smoking it. On the whole they are more withdrawn and prefer to sit indoors doing that rather than out socialising.
 
Seriously, how old are you?

Seriously? The question is, How old are you. wikipedia is not a "Source" it is a collection of details written from a person who knows a bit about that subject. A "source" is the main thing, The "Original" content. Not a rehash of the original author.

Oh and Btw why don't you contribute to the thread instead of asking for an age. I may have copied and pasted, but I agree with avery word I pasted.
 
Seriously? The question is, How old are you. wikipedia is not a "Source" it is a collection of details written from a person who knows a bit about that subject. A "source" is the main thing, The "Original" content. Not a rehash of the original author.

Oh and Btw why don't you contribute to the thread instead of asking for an age. I may have copied and pasted, but I agree with avery word I pasted.

I was just wondering. Calm down...

Please link to your sources. :)

EDIT:

I might aswell state my point of view on this topic.

Of course it should be legalized. It doesn't matter wheter it hurts you or not. Why should the government care about what you put in your body? I'm also for legalizing every other drug there is on the market.

Legalizing hard drugs like morphin and heroin will reduce the chances of drug users getting HIV. If I recall correctly, there is dispensaries in Norway where you can get clean shots, which is great imo.
People who say that marijuana is a "gateway drug" is totally correct, but then cigarettes and alcohol is also a gateway to drugs.
The study which shows that marijuana kills brain cells are totally wrong. The scientists that found this out are totally retards. They gave monkeys over 30 joints a day sufficating them. And suffication=reduction of brain cells.

To TheManInBlack;
Alcohol doesn't just affect your liver, it kills your brain cells. And you say that you would rather suffer from a dying liver instead of a dying brain. If I were to choose between dying from a dying liver or a dying brain, I would totally go for the brain. Your death will be slow and painful with lots of surgeries if you have a dying liver, and I would think that if your brain was dying you wouldn't suffer a lot.

Sources: The Union.
 
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Seriously? The question is, How old are you. wikipedia is not a "Source" it is a collection of details written from a person who knows a bit about that subject. A "source" is the main thing, The "Original" content. Not a rehash of the original author.

Oh and Btw why don't you contribute to the thread instead of asking for an age. I may have copied and pasted, but I agree with avery word I pasted.

Copying and pasting an insanely long list of disputable facts is not "contributing." Also, I guarantee that you're just some 12 year old who thinks he knows everything, but barely has a grasp on what marijuana actually is.
 
I voted no. I have a number of friends that have smoked it from their teens and now 15 years later are still smoking it. On the whole they are more withdrawn and prefer to sit indoors doing that rather than out socialising.

So, you think that they should be in jail? That they should go to prison for years because they make their own choices?! Willingness to socialize isn't related to marijuana at all.
 
How is the law going to stop them if it's not illegal?
I think you're allowed to sue someone or try to get a restraining order if they are being extremely disruptive and refuse to stop. But hey, I could be wrong!

We have a huge problem with drugs in Mexico. And it is not only marijuana, but also cocaine, etc. This problem has evolved in the last years, turning every day more violent than the last. The problem with these drug cartels is that their money an power has extended and corrupted the authorities. Recently a sum of 380 BILLION dollars was discovered to be laundred in a foreign bank. An this money came from only ONE cartel.
The economist video linked earlier made a really good point about that - because these drugs are illegal, it takes a lot of money to be able to sell them on a large scale without being sent to jail immediately, so only the big drug cartels can afford to be at the top of the distribution chain. If all drugs were treated like other legal commodities, and addicts were treated instead of imprisoned, I think this problem would almost completely go away.


PS: Why hasn't the troll been perma-banned yet? Serious question, I'm really wondering about this. I don't see anyone enjoying responding to him.
 
Now convince me i'm wrong!
Gladly.

There are over 10,000 scientific studies that prove marijuana is a harmful addictive drug. There is not one reliable study that demonstrates marijuana has any medical value.
10,000? Cool.
I'll deal with the second part of this in a second.

Marijuana is an unstable mixture of more than 425 chemicals that convert to thousands when smoked. Many of these chemicals are toxic, psychoactive chemicals which are largely unstudied and appear in uncontrolled strengths.
Interesting. What happened to those 10,000 studies?

The harmful consequences of smoking marijuana include, but are not limited to the following: premature cancer, addiction, coordination and perception impairment, a number of mental disorders including depression, hostility and increased aggresiveness, general apathy, memory loss, reproductive disabilities, and impairment to the immune system.
Says who? Either way, is there a reason why we shouldn't be able to do what we wish with our own bodies, for better or for worse?

The Food and Drug Administration, the Drug Enforcement Administration and the U.S. Public Health Service have rejected smoking crude marijuana as a medicine. Medical marijuana has been promoted for "compassionate use" to assist people with cancer, AIDS and glaucoma. Scientific studies show the opposite is true; marijuana is damaging to individuals with these illnesses. In fact, people suffering with AIDS and glaucoma are being used unfairly by groups whose real agenda is to legalize marijuana.
As opposed to their "fake" agenda of... legalizing marijuana?


AIDS: Scientific studies indicate marijuana damages the immune system, causing further peril to already weakened immune systems. HIV-positive marijuana smokers progress to full-blown AIDS twice as fast as non-smokers and have an increased incidence of bacterial pneumonia.

Cancer: Marijuana contains many cancer-causing substances, many of which are present in higher concentrations in marijuana than in tobacco.

Glaucoma: Marijuana does not prevent blindness due to glaucoma.
If I'm correct, then very few people think that marijuana can truly "cure" diseases. The point is that with patients who have such conditions as terminal cancer, marijuana may help ease their pain more effectively than other conventional pain medications. I detect a strawman argument here.

Marijuana is currently up to 25 times more potent than it was in the 1960's, making the drug even more addictive.
Addictive how? Most agree that marijuana doesn't create physical dependence.

Americans take their medicine in pills, solutions, sprays, shots, drops, creams, and sometimes in suppositories, but never by smoking. No medicine prescribed for us today is smoked.
Cool. Relevance?

While a biomedical or casual relationship between marijuana and the use of hard drugs has not been established, the statistical association is quite convincing. 12 to 17 year-olds who smoke marijuana are 85 times more likely to use cocaine than those who do not. 60% of adolescents who use marijuana before age 15 will later use cocaine.
This makes sense, and doesn't necessarily point to anything bad about pot itself. The type of person who seeks out pot just so happens to be the type of person who also seeks out coke- is that really altogether surprising? More importantly, does this have anything to do with pot itself?

These correlations are many times higher than the initial relationships found between smoking and lung cancer.
Does that mean we should ignore the whole "marijuana damages your health" rant?

Major medical and health organizations, as well as the vast majority of nationally recognized expert medical doctors, scientists and researchers, have concluded that smoking marijuana is not a safe and effective medicine. These organizations include: the American Medical Association, the American Cancer Society, National Sclerosis Association, the American Glaucoma Association, American Academy of Opthalmology, National Eye Institute, and the National Cancer Institute.
Terminal cancer patients care very little for safety. They care about spending their last days / weeks / months pain-free.

In 1994, a U.S. Court of Appeals ruled that marijuana should remain a Schedule I drug: highly addictive with no medical usefulness. The court noted that the pro-marijuana physicians had relied on non-scientific evidence.
Yes, I suppose that well-reasoned philosophical appeals to the expansion of personal liberty are "non-scientific".

The California ballot initiative will make marijuana available without a written prescription, bypassing all established medical guidelines for dispensing drugs. The Arizona ballot initiative will legalize all Schedule I drugs for medical use. Schedule I drugs are drugs that have a high potential for abuse and have no currently accepted medical use in treatment. Examples of Schedule I drugs are marijuana, LSD and heroin. Under Arizona's proposition all of these drugs would be essentially legalized for any so-called medical use.
The problem being?

These ballot initiatives were passed through a major disinformation campaign financed by wealthy individuals from outside these states. The billionaire financier George Soros gave over half a million dollars to support these initiatives. Other significant contributors include George Zimmer, president and CEO of the Men's Warehouse clothing store chain, Peter Lewis of The Progressive Corporation Insurance company in Ohio, and John Sperling, CEO of the Apollo Group, a Phoenix holding company for numerous educational institutions.
I don't know much about these particular ballot initiatives... but this, this, and this are all Prop 19 advertisements, and contain zero misinformation.

The true agenda for Prop. 215 and 200 is revealed when you examine the backers of these initiatives. The National Organization to Reform Marijuana Laws (NORML), the Drug Policy Foundation and the Cannabis Buyers Club in San Francisco have spearheaded the passage of the propositions. The radical legalization agenda of these groups leaves little doubt about their broader goal to legalize marijuana and other drugs. As reported in High Times magazine, the director of NORML expressly stated that the medical use of marijuana is an interal part of the strategy to legalize marijuana. A former director of NORML told an Emory University audience that NORML would be using the issue of medicinal marijuana as a red herring to give marijuana a good name.
Yes, this seems rather obvious. Problem?


If we want to see marijuana use among youth equal to alcohol and tobacco, then we should go ahead and legalize marijuana.
Legalizing marijuana means that the government can more easily control it with minimum ages, taxes, etc. I suspect that the number of pot smokers under 18 would decrease with its legalization, rather than increase.

Legalizing marijuana would add a third drug that combines some of the most serious risks of alcohol and tobacco. Marijuana offers both the intoxicating effects of alcohol and the long-term lung damage of tobacco.
Several things wrong with this. You're allowing people to smoke tobacco and drink beer anyway, so your appeal to personal health is rather nonsensical. Plus, there's no reason why people should be barred from hurting themselves anyway.
On a separate note, the only reason why people should care about the "intoxicating" effects of alcohol and pot are the potential dangers someone poses to others while they're intoxicated, especially while they're driving. No one is stupid enough to suggest legalizing marijuana without introducing legislation that would prevent someone from driving high.
And, the link between pot and lung cancer is dubious.

Tobacco companies similarly advertised cigarettes as medicinal until the Federal Trad Commision put a stop to it in 1955. Medicinal marijuana is the "Joe Camel" of the promarijuana lobby, since it is children, the first time users, who are most impressed by these erroneous health claims.
This, like everything else relating to health, is basically irrelevant to what we're talking about. The subject of the thread and the wider discussion generally speaking is recreational use. Its lack of positive health affects (disregarding the obvious comfort it might lend to terminally ill patients) and potentially adverse health effects aren't important unless you're suggesting that the government should keep pot illegal solely on the basis of its health concerns. Big brother much?

Also, I'm almost positive that you copied this from an article you found online. I don't know where you got it, but I suggest you credit your source, rather than mindlessly copy and pasting.

Apart from the intellectual dishonesty, you also chose the wrong article to rip off. Whoever wrote what you posted seems to have been writing against medicinal marijuana, not recreational. Try again.

I'm sure that this will get alot of you all heated up but let's try and keep this on an intelligent level please.
Sir, yes sir.

Edit: Okay epically ninja'd on a couple of these points. They still stand though.
 
I voted no. I have a number of friends that have smoked it from their teens and now 15 years later are still smoking it. On the whole they are more withdrawn and prefer to sit indoors doing that rather than out socialising.

Correlation does not imply causation. Even so, who are you to tell them what to enjoy? Sounds like they're perfectly harmless.
 
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