Fridich to ZZ.

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NaeosPsy

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I would like to change Fridich solving system to ZZ, because im inflicted by the high sucess of it. I use Intuitive F2l + 2-step OLL + almost 1-step PLL.(about 40 seconds avg) Should i change it now or learn all the algorithms for Fridich?
 
Why would you learn all Fridrich algs? You'd end up throwing away any OLL alg without edges oriented. I'd just learn EO and use OCLL+PLL for LL for now - a combo doesn't require any new algs for you. If you end up liking ZZ, stick to it and when you're really fast, learn CLS or ZBLL for 1LLL, or whatever other alg set is out that'll make you even faster.
 
BigSams said:
Why would you learn all Fridrich algs? You'd end up throwing away any OLL alg without edges oriented. I'd just learn EO and use OCLL+PLL for LL for now - a combo doesn't require any new algs for you. If you end up liking ZZ, stick to it and when you're really fast, learn CLS or ZBLL for 1LLL, or whatever other alg set is out that'll make you even faster.
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Ok, thx. ^^

High success of ZZ? What? I am confused how you are "inflicted by the high success of it"....
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Well, i think it's the future of speedcubing, because it could be faster than Fridich, if people worked on it.
 
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If you can do intuitive F2L you don't need to learn F2L algorithms.
ZZ involves block building F2L so you kind of have to change how you look at it compared to Fridrich F2L.
I would suggest learning it if you want to and see if you like it and if you do stick to it since it does have a good potential to be fast.
 
I just saw this thread.

Why would you learn all Fridrich algs? You'd end up throwing away any OLL alg without edges oriented. I'd just learn EO and use OCLL+PLL for LL for now - a combo doesn't require any new algs for you. If you end up liking ZZ, stick to it and when you're really fast, learn CLS or ZBLL for 1LLL, or whatever other alg set is out that'll make you even faster.
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After you do that OCLL+PLL thing you should look into COLL if you decide to stick with ZZ. That's an extension of OCLL that solves more pieces during the OLL step. CLS is a neat trick but I don't think it's very useful until you are very fast. Same with ZBLL.

Well, i think it's the future of speedcubing, because it could be faster than Fridich, if people worked on it.
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ZZ is very frustrating to practice because getting EO line optimal and finding a low move count first block is difficult. You search for three pieces when making the block compared to Fridrich's two. In addition, there are many different types of blocks you can make right after the EO line compared to just a pair. It's very hard to imagine ZZ averaging sub 8 or sub 9.
 
I'm courious nobody mentioned phasing + ZZ-b as an state of the art ZZ Last layer strategy - to benefit from this you must obviously be already very fast.

I tried phasing myself (to phase away 12 PLLs, lazy me) and it is definitly easy.

It is a good idea to get a least the theory of zz-b now, and to try out phasing now.

That way you can decide wich COLLs to learn, because not every COLL execution is "compatible" with phasing. (COLLs doing an edge 3-cycles are not zz-b )

Fact: Phasing reduces last layer cases by 66% Theory: so I believe 66% of "optimal" COLL executions are not phasing compatible.


Also with ZZ you can alway feel happy, you don't waste moves on building a cross (wich theoretically, first eats up moves, and later on hinders your F2L *). <- little emphasis is on theoretically


* References: Pochmann Diploma thesis / Vandenberg on the internet
 
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ZZ is my mail method.... f*** phasing/ZZ-b, COLL/EPLL recognition/Execution is ok although there is only a few cases i even use during solves (and you still end up having to use all PLL cases for those orientation skips). there really isnt too much more to gain over OCLL/PLL.... just stick with that for a while... you will your hands full with EOLine and blockbuilding tricks for a while
 
For me this is for OH.

I just got a functioning 3x3 speedcube again and have been thinking about getting back into OH. Should I switch to ZZ for OH or stay with Fridrich? Pros? Cons?

Not really helping the OP but the thread is about switching from Fridrich to ZZ which is what I'm doing.
 
Why don't you try it out and tell us how it went? If you're good at EOLine ZZ can be a good method, especially for OH. But if you can do cross in 2 secs, but EOLine takes you 5 or more, you may be better off with CFOP.
 
I do ZZOH and it feels pretty good. Times are somewhat comparable to fast Fridrich OH people.

If you have fast and comfortable turning the f2l is very nice. Plus, you gain a simplified last layer, which is very convenient. The biggest weakness is the EO line. It's very hard to do optimal EOline and having only one hand to do it makes things even worse. There are also various things you have to avoid in ZZ like relying on a slot based f2l, which is what you are probably used to.

Personally, I don't think ZZ can overtake Fridrich 2h. It has a better chance in OH imo.

Why don't you try it out and tell us how it went?
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It takes quite a while to be well versed in EO and blockbuilding. He's clearly asking people who have tried it for their experiences.

Nobody has mentioned about the Winter variation for ZZ. Only requires less then 30 alg which most are 2 gen and it forces OLL skip.
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The Winter variation looks nice on paper but it isn't useful as a main method because the step you think you are cutting out is actually added on when you form the pair. People recognize Winter as a cool side trick.
 
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