Judging Discussion Thread [before: Judges' behavior at WCA competitions]

[PhillipEspinoza]

During a BLD solve it's also really important. At Nats this last year, I was BLD solving and then these 2 judges were whispering to each other:

JUDGE 1: "Oh no... Should I just let him finish or should I stop him?"
JUDGE 1: "Ah, just let him finish"

WORST thing to hear during a BLD solve, even if it wasn't about me. The thing is, I didn't know if it was about me or not but the convo was literally right behind me. So I thought I maybe didn't start the timer or something and didn't notice so I ended up concentrating on that instead of my solve.

Also, it's kinda disturbing when a judge is sick, wipes his/her nose or w/e, then handles your cube. Or if they're eating some kinda greasy food and then handles your cube and when they give it to you it's all greasy and slippery.

 

[FatBoyXPC]

Also, it's kinda disturbing when a judge is sick, wipes his/her nose or w/e, then handles your cube. Or if they're eating some kinda greasy food and then handles your cube and when they give it to you it's all greasy and slippery.

I believe that's been talked about before, and I think somebody mentioned that's why judges at European competitions are often seen wearing gloves. I tried to do a search for this but I couldn't find anything after a (very) quick search.

 

[qqwref]

Seriously, it should be some rule about distance, we often sqeese in to many tables to be able to compleate the round quicker, to be able to have more events. If the venue is small we really should cut down on events rater than destroy many of the solves for the competitors.

I think I'd rather be bumped a bit or have to explicitly tell judges to stand back than have far fewer events at a competition. But that's just me.

As a judge I always try to pick a good place to stand - if it's next to a person I will choose that, if there is not enough room next to them I will stand behind and to the right/left.

 

[Hadley4000]

This is slightly different, but it is a judging issue.

Someone who was judging me one time(Whose name I will not reveal) said right as he was setting the cube down "You're going to love this cross."
Now I am color neutral, but since he said that I assumed to check white right away. Sure enough, the white cross was super nice. It was something I obviously would have noticed on my own, but it still bothers me that he warned me about a solve. That could give some people a longer amount of time to plan pairs, due to only having to look at 1 face.

 

[FatBoyXPC]

In reference to that, Hadley, it's so hard not to talk about scrambles though (if you get a good time) if you're a judge and go first, while waiting on them to scramble the first lot of cubes to start calling out names. Typically when people see good solves (for a particular level anyhow) they talk about it and sometimes it just comes out like "Oh man that had such a nice ortega scramble" or something. Even though it shouldn't be talked about, I know I've done it on accident before.

I do agree though that a judge definitely shouldn't say it to a competitor right before the solve.

 

[Bryan]

In reference to that, Hadley, it's so hard not to talk about scrambles though (if you get a good time) if you're a judge and go first, while waiting on them to scramble the first lot of cubes to start calling out names.

Is it really so hard? It seems like a simple case of self-control.

 

[krnballerzzz]

Is it really so hard? It seems like a simple case of self-control.

YOU'RE OUT OF CONTROL BRYAN!!

But seriously, everyone calm down.

But seriously seriously, it IS a matter of self control. Giving an unfair advantage to another competitor like that isn't cool.

 

[Lucas Garron]

But seriously seriously, it IS a matter of self control. Giving an unfair advantage to another competitor like that isn't cool.

Not to mention, it's illegal.

 

[MichaelErskine]

Also something that I find pretty distracting is when the judge picks up the pen or w/e when you're close to finishing...

Damn! I may have been guilty of this since I usually sign the scoresheet immediately after finishing with the stopwatch (i.e. still during the solve). I will not do this any more!

 

[HaraldS]

I hate when the judge is in his/her own world and not paying attention at all to the cuber thats solving. Whats the point of having a judge that isnt judging..

 

[Rubiks560]

Dear cubing community,
At Westchester Fall 2008 I did in fact get the second scramble twice for BLD. My judge was inexperienced and did not write down DNF on the second solve, and I took advantage of this and got the same scramble twice. I am not sure how the 52 was in fact counted as the last solve, that part is a mystery to me. However, I did get the same scramble, rechecked my memo in 15 seconds, blindfolded myself, and solved the cube in 52.27 "WR". I have felt guilty about this for years, and I was scared about coming clean. I was only 17 at the time and i was young and irresponsible. I could have held this secret for my entire life and would have never gotten caught. No one had any suspicion, but I came clean on my own without anyone blaming, suspecting, or notifying the WCA board about me. I notified them myself, 4 years after the day it happened, and confessed and told them I would accept any punishment they give me. I love this community, and now that you all know this horrible truth I feel good about being honest with you all and I do not expect you to still respect me in anyway. Although the WCA has decided to give me no punishment, all the hatred and disrespect I will get for the next few years is punishment enough. I am deeply sorry, Ville Sepannen, who truly had the WR during those short two weeks. I apologize to the WCA board for disrespecting regulations and not being honest with them. I apologize to Dan Cohen, who did in fact really win BLD at Westchester Fall 2008. Lastly, I apologize to the entire cubing community for not being honest with them from the beginning, but I feel better now telling you this than keeping it a secret for the rest of my life. This is the biggest mistake I've ever made in my life, and I hope someday you can all look past this terrible decision and forgive me. Thank you.
-Rowe Hessler

I have had the same thing happen to me. My judge gave me the same scramble for BLD, then I told him it was the same one but he refused to give me a new scramble. I should have DNF'd it and told Mike about it, but I just memod for the regular time and then flipped two edges at the end so it would be a DNF. I was HIGHLY tempted to memo in like 15 and then go from there though. But I decided cheating just wouldn't be worth it.

I give you massive props for coming out an doing this. In sure the guilt was eating you alive.

 

[blah]

I have had the same thing happen to me. My judge gave me the same scramble for BLD, then I told him it was the same one but he refused to give me a new scramble. I should have DNF'd it and told Mike about it, but I just memod for the regular time and then flipped two edges at the end so it would be a DNF. I was HIGHLY tempted to memo in like 15 and then go from there though. But I decided cheating just wouldn't be worth it.

I give you massive props for coming out an doing this. In sure the guilt was eating you alive.

wait wtf? that's not an event that doesn't make sense; that's a series of events that don't make sense

 

[Rubiks560]

wait wtf? that's not an event that doesn't make sense; that's a series of events that don't make sense

I figured I phrased something terrible in there...to shorten it up: did first BLD solve, DNF, second solve had the same scramble, I told the judge it was the same one, he says "Well, it's better to have a scramble you remember then to get a new one", I continue memoing, do solve, DNF on purpose. Hopefully that makes more sense.

 

[IamWEB]

I told the judge it was the same one, he says "Well, it's better to have a scramble you remember then to get a new one".

That is the worst thing for a judge to say! Seriously, what? This should have been complained about. It wasn't necessary that you DNF a solve because of judge's issue; you should have refused to do the solve and gotten the issue resolved with the delegate.

Also, your phrasing wasn't an issue in understanding the situation.

 

[sneaklyfox]

I figured I phrased something terrible in there...to shorten it up: did first BLD solve, DNF, second solve had the same scramble, I told the judge it was the same one, he says "Well, it's better to have a scramble you remember then to get a new one", I continue memoing, do solve, DNF on purpose. Hopefully that makes more sense.

What was the judge thinking???

I wonder how many other times someone has gotten the same scramble twice. It must happen more than these two times (you and Rowe). Sometimes mistakes happen. Probably someone somewhere has done the same scramble twice and not confessed to it. (Sighted solve, for instance.)

 

[Rubiks560]

Yeah. I really should have told Mike about it.

I'm sure this happens a lot. I've had this happen numerous times on 2x2 scrambles.

 

[That70sShowDude]

What was the judge thinking???

I wonder how many other times someone has gotten the same scramble twice. It must happen more than these two times (you and Rowe). Sometimes mistakes happen. Probably someone somewhere has done the same scramble twice and not confessed to it. (Sighted solve, for instance.)

I've been to less than 30 competitions and have gotten the same scramble twice in BLD easily over 5 times. The most common reason is that new judges tend to leave the spot blank and just take the card up. Some smaller competitions really need to take the time to teach their staff how to judge correctly.

 

[sneaklyfox]

I've been to less than 30 competitions and have gotten the same scramble twice in BLD easily over 5 times. The most common reason is that new judges tend to leave the spot blank and just take the card up. Some smaller competitions really need to take the time to teach their staff how to judge correctly.

Hmm... I haven't actually been to any competition yet (but planning to). Is it more likely to get the same scramble twice in BLD than in sighted solves because the judge has to write down "DNF"? I mean, it's more natural to write down the time for a sighted solve but if you DNF a BLD, it's more likely the judge will leave the spot blank?

 

[That70sShowDude]

Hmm... I haven't actually been to any competition yet (but planning to). Is it more likely to get the same scramble twice in BLD than in sighted solves because the judge has to write down "DNF"? I mean, it's more natural to write down the time for a sighted solve but if you DNF a BLD, it's more likely the judge will leave the spot blank?

Yep. This exact thing happened at my most recent comp.

 

[Eric79]

"Well, it's better to have a scramble you remember then to get a new one"

This is ridiculous. That judge should never ever be a judge again and also receive further punishments.

[...] After scrambling dozens of cubes, it's almost impossible to remember which cube/cuber already had a certain scramble.

So since notes taken by judges on the cards obviously aren't reliable (because they are unexperienced, badly trained or for whatever other reasons), scramblers also should have tables to check who already got a specific scramble - this should always have been obligatory.