Cross on left discussion thread

[Weston]

U2 r U2 r' U2

One of my favorite OH tricks.

 

[maggot]

I randomly switch to COL on the 3x3 stage of 5x5 'cause it's simply easier to execute things that way at times =P

this

sometime i get very disoriented when i come out of edge pair, especially on 4x4. i use syuhei edges, so when i finish the 6 pair, im left with 0,2,3 edge and since nothing is sliced, i move the edge without respect to keeping my top color in the same orientation. so, many times i do not pay attention to what cube rotation i have done to pair the last 2/3 edge and my cross is any color, so i scan the cube to see opposite side and pair (best possible cross color neutral) and whatever side the cross is on, i put to left down or up face to make it easiest. if best possible cross is on B F or R, i will cube rotate to put on D face. sometimes if my first F2L pair is made on the opposite face i will insert it with the cross staying on the left. i never insert 1st F2L pair on up face cross, i just throw it on the bottom as i am scanning for pairs. i find it interesting that other people take advantage of multiple cross positioning on big cube

 

[Stefan]

U' R2 U2 r U r' U'

 

[Ravi]

I would classify myself as a quasi-COL solver. I generally solve the cross itself on U, but rotate it to L as I finish it. Then I solve most of F2L with cross on left, but usually switch to cross on D for the last pair (or occasionally two or three; sometimes I even switch back and forth within a solve). All of those cube rotations are entirely subconscious, so I actually have to pay attention to my own cube rotations in a few example solves to even figure out what rotations I'm doing. My F2L also has a few other quirks:

* I use multislotting extensively, but it's mostly old-school stuff, nearly all based on simple insertions and removals combined with some lookahead to tell which of two or three options will preserve/create the best pair. I also frequently try to preserve a pair during F2L and while solving the cross. I would describe my multislotting as extremely improvisational.

* A lot of my algs/tendencies (especially preserving pairs during F2L) are geared more towards cutting moves than cutting time. This is because (1) I have used the same algorithms, for the most part, since 2004 or 2005, when there was more of an emphasis on optimal algs than crazy finger tricks; and (2) I have never yet owned a speedcube smooth enough to make lockups a non-issue. If I try to execute a 12-move alg that you can do in 1.1 seconds, then I may well lock up once or twice, thereby turning it into 2-3 seconds or more.

* Apart from multislotting, I frequently use VH/partial edge control and/or the Winter variation during the last slot to affect OLL. (I'm not convinced that full VH and/or Winter variation would help more than it would hurt, but I know most of the nicer cases of each.) Some cases of those systems force me to rotate cross to D before the last pair.

Right now, I'm averaging around 12.3 seconds for the full cube. By my estimates, my splits are about 1.7 for cross, 5.7 for the rest of F2L, and 4.9 for LL.

How does this compare to other cross-on-lefters? (I'm guessing my style is pretty unusual even compared to those of other COL solvers.)

 

[XXGeneration]

I think the reason there aren't as many COLers is simply because there aren't enough COLers. It's like the QWERTY vs the Dvorak keyboards. There aren't many Dvorak keyboarders, and they don't tend to pass it on, while the QWERTY keyboard is the standard for all computers.

 

[PhillipEspinoza]

I really like this idea. We should put up a site or something like Macky's layout. I wanna get Tomasz involved in this too.

I like Stefan's alg, it's a good variation of the alg that I wouldn't have thought of.

A few more open slot ones:

F (R U R U' R') F' and it's inverse.

F (R U R2 U') F' (this one would be really good for this alg cuz it's annoying)

 

[StachuK1992]

A few questions for y'all.

How do you like sims?
Big cubes - what methods do you use, and do you do a rotation abnormal to most?
Team events - have you done team bld/solving with other COLers? How is it with, say, CODers?
How many rotations do you 'normally' go through in a (3x3) solve?
OH - what do you do?
Do you have any OLLs/PLLs you do from that angle, or do you auto-switch on the 4th pair?

I've been practicing some COL for fun over the past 24 hours, probably 200 solves or so, and I have to say, it's rather fun.

 

[LarsN]

Great idea I asked for this a couple of times before, but when faster cubers are involved now, it may help things a lot.
All of the tricks I use have been mentioned, though, so I guess I could learn a lot from this

A few questions for y'all.

How do you like sims?

I do not like them and if I would do one it would be COD.

Big cubes - what methods do you use, and do you do a rotation abnormal to most?

COL. For 4x4 I do the method where you build the cross early and I do that COL.

Team events - have you done team bld/solving with other COLers? How is it with, say, CODers?

I've only tried with COD users and I use COD myself when I'm solving the cube too.

How many rotations do you 'normally' go through in a (3x3) solve?

About 2-3 [R] rotations and 3-4 Lw moves.

OH - what do you do?

COD with a tilt

Do you have any OLLs/PLLs you do from that angle, or do you auto-switch on the 4th pair?

Autoswitch after 4th pair, but I look into it once without great success´.

 

[shelley]

A few questions for y'all.

How do you like sims?
Big cubes - what methods do you use, and do you do a rotation abnormal to most?
Team events - have you done team bld/solving with other COLers? How is it with, say, CODers?
How many rotations do you 'normally' go through in a (3x3) solve?
OH - what do you do?
Do you have any OLLs/PLLs you do from that angle, or do you auto-switch on the 4th pair?

I've been practicing some COL for fun over the past 24 hours, probably 200 solves or so, and I have to say, it's rather fun.

Sims - don't like them, never could get used to them (or cared enough to practice, really), but whenever I did do them I did COD. COL has easier physical execution and more cube rotations. With a sim, there's no real difference between doing one move or another (they're just pressing different keys) so using COD minimizes cube rotations.

Big cubes - don't really do them, but when I do I solve COL after reduction.

Team events - I use the Berkeley team BLD system and call/execute COD. Jfly and I have experimented with executing COL using the same system, so it does work, I just haven't practiced it (since everyone else uses COD anyway).

Cube rotations - I see them as part of a whole fluid movement as opposed to discrete rotations as I see CODers do a lot. A lot of people have commented on this aspect of my solving style - everything looks like a very smooth movement. When I turn the last layer while solving F2L, sometimes it will be R, sometimes it will be Lw, sometimes a combination of the two. It's easy because one hand is always holding R and the other hand is holding the rest of the cube. By doing D flicks with ring fingers, it's also possible to insert into the DB slot, which saves rotations.

OH - I use whatever will keep me from dropping the cube . A little of both I guess, but I'm probably not the right person to ask for this.

OLL/PLLs: just one - the mirror of F (sexy move)*2 F'. I execute it as b' (U' R' U R)*2 b. I adapted it this way because due to COL solving my left hand is completely stupid at doing triggers. I've done a lot of adaptations on LL algs to compensate for this, but I think this is the only one that really retains something like cross on left (and even then, it starts and ends with last layer on top).

 

[StachuK1992]

Thanks, both of you.

For now, I'm just going to work on OH and 2H for COL.
I'm still deciding where to do my cross for OH, though. (I do OH RH)

Shelley - I find D moves to help a lot. At first, they were quite awkward to insert into D-layer slots, but it's gotten better.

I'm finding 'rotations' to actually help in COL rather than hinder, as it seems to do for my COD solves.

I'm averaging probably ~23 with this, as opposed to ~19 COD, but that doesn't say much, considering it's the same method.

/me goes qqtimer.

 

[shelley]

Oh yeah, I do left handed OH. I'd imagine COL isn't so friendly for right handed OH.

 

[StachuK1992]

Oh yeah, I do left handed OH. I'd imagine COL isn't so friendly for right handed OH.

COR works okay.

 

[Stefan]

Do you have any OLLs/PLLs you do from that angle

I don't (and actually am back to COD), but Sune feels good with COL and I heard OLL can be done with two Sunes.

 

[StachuK1992]

I just uploaded a quick average of 5. 24s average.
[youtubehd]zowCeXLiVN8[/youtubehd]

If someone could take a look at this, and tell me if I'm doing something right/wrong, that'd be appreciated. I know I'm taking much too long to recognize some F2L pairs, and sometimes even mess up the cross!

I hope the lighting/angle is decent. I tried to make it so you could see the general UFL area best.

Edit: Stefan - Ooh, I didn't know you (once) use(d) COL. I'm finding more and more people that do.
Perhaps it would be cool to have a database of what various people use. I'll work on this; I need to do some web programming anyway, and my server is being underused

 

[Robert-Y]

...but Sune feels good with COL and I heard OLL can be done with two Sunes.

Maybe a useful alg for COL f2l: r' U' R U' R' U2' r U2

 

[blade740]

My biggest problem with cross on left is edge control. I haven't found a good way to fingertrick, for example, an R'FRF', on the left (UF'U'F or similar)

 

[LarsN]

My biggest problem with cross on left is edge control. I haven't found a good way to fingertrick, for example, an R'FRF', on the left (UF'U'F or similar)

U L' U' Rw

EDIT: Just remembered this F2L trick:

U' R U R' Uw' R U R' U' R' Uw

 

[shelley]

My biggest problem with cross on left is edge control. I haven't found a good way to fingertrick, for example, an R'FRF', on the left (UF'U'F or similar)

Situations like that are when I'd switch to COD just for the last pair.

 

[trying-to-speedcube...]

I like this. I'm getting 14-15 average right now. My problems consist of:
- Not being able to look ahead during F2L: for example DF, DR and DL edges are hard for me to see, let alone while turning.
- Inefficiency: with COD I found a lot of shortcuts during F2L. Those just don't seem to work well with COL.
- Rotations: I think I should do more D moves, and at least more Lw moves. At the moment my F2L only consists of [R, U, x].

My PB single with COL is now 12.02, with a 13.05 avg5 and a 14.23 avg12.

EDIT:
number of times: 50/50
best time: 10.73 (PLL skip, also had a 11.19 fullstep)
worst time: 22.29

current avg5: 14.56 (σ = 0.52)
best avg5: 13.04 (σ = 0.25)

current avg12: 14.70 (σ = 0.91)
best avg12: 14.21 (σ = 0.99)

session avg: 14.80 (σ = 1.69)
session mean: 14.87

Spoiler

Session average: 14.80
1. 16.42 D2 U B D' B' U2 R2 D R' F2 D F' U2 L' D' U2 L' R2 D U' L B2 D' F' D'
2. 13.78 B2 R B2 F2 L R2 F' R' B' U2 D2 L R F' R2 B R L2 B2 L B' D' L2 B2 R'
3. 13.19 U2 F2 U' L R2 D L' F2 D' B2 L' R B' D U' R D2 F2 U2 F2 U R2 F2 U' R2
4. (22.29) D2 B2 R B' R' D' L2 R' D B' D' R L2 F' D2 B L B' F L B U' F' R B'
5. 15.17 D2 U R' F' D2 L' U2 R' U L2 B' F D' B2 D R' D2 L2 R B2 R' F L B2 F'
6. 14.94 D2 F' R F D F2 B2 D R' F B' R U' D F2 B2 L2 R2 D' B L D L' R' U
7. 14.44 B2 L R' D' F2 L2 D' L2 B F R2 D2 L2 F2 B2 L' U' B' U R2 F2 L F B D'
8. 13.38 B2 U' B' L' R2 F' B' U2 R2 L' F B D U' B2 D R F2 D' R' U' B F2 R D'
9. 17.04 L2 F U B U2 D B2 F L R' D' L' F2 L' D U' L2 B D L U2 F D' F' U'
10. 12.80 R2 L B L' F2 D' U' B D L' U' D2 R2 B2 D' R L B2 U' L2 D' F R2 U2 R'
11. (10.73) B2 L2 R2 U' D' B' F2 D L2 F R B' D F2 B R' U' F' D2 B U' R' U L' D
12. 12.93 F R D2 B2 R2 B' R F L B2 F U' F B L2 B L' U' F2 D2 B L2 B2 L2 B2
13. 15.44 L B F' L D2 L2 R U2 F2 L2 R' F' L' B2 U' B L' R U2 L' D2 F' U F B2
14. 14.68 U' F B D2 U R2 F' R L B' U2 B2 F R2 D' R2 D' F2 L' F' L R U' F' L2
15. 15.66 U B F' D2 F U' D2 R2 D' B D2 F2 U' F2 R L2 B' D' U2 R' U2 D' L' R2 F'
16. 14.63 R F2 B' R' D' F' B' L U R' L' D' B2 F R' L' D2 F U2 R D F2 D2 R' D2
17. 13.24 B2 U B2 R2 L D R D2 U2 B2 R2 B U' D' L F' U L' R' U' R2 F D2 U' F'
18. 18.51 F2 B U' L U2 D2 B D' R2 U D' B2 F2 L F' B2 R2 L2 F2 D' L R' F R2 B'
19. 15.65 F2 D R' D U2 R2 L2 D F' D2 L F2 B D B' D2 U L2 U' D2 L R' D B2 R
20. 12.80 B F' D' U2 F' L U2 D2 B' F2 R2 L2 U2 B2 D L2 B L' B2 L R2 D' B2 U' R
21. 15.57 U2 R' U R' D' F L' R' F D U L F R' L2 U2 R2 F' L F2 R' L B2 D2 F2
22. 13.24 R B2 D U' L' F2 U L' U R' U D B' D' U' R2 F2 U' F' B U B' D U L
23. 14.42 F2 B' L B2 R2 B' L B' U F' U' D L' B' U F2 R F' B U F2 R2 F' U2 B2
24. 18.86 D2 U' B2 F R2 B' R' L U D2 L' U' L2 D' L' F' U R B U' D2 F2 B' L D
25. 15.53 F2 D' F2 U F L R' F' L D2 F' L2 U D' F' U2 L' B' U2 L U' D2 F D' L
26. 12.37 L' U B2 R F' L D2 U R L' U2 F D2 F2 D' R2 D' R' U R L' F' D' R L2
27. 13.15 U D B' R B F R2 B2 L' U2 L2 R2 B R2 B' U2 D F' D L F U L2 R U
28. 14.62 U L U2 D2 L' U D' R' L' F U2 F' L U F U B L U2 L' B' L F' U B'
29. 17.31 D2 R' F2 L B' D2 B2 R F' R' L2 F2 L R' U R B R B2 U B2 L F' D' F2
30. 14.91 F L R' F B R' F' U2 R' U2 F U2 R2 L' D' U' R' L' B F' L' R2 U R2 D
31. 16.47 U' D' B' R B U' B L2 B' R' D2 U' F L2 R' F2 R2 F' U L2 B D L B2 F2
32. 16.04 R F2 U' B' F L B' U2 F' D B U' F2 U2 F2 D' R2 B2 R2 U2 F' L F U2 D'
33. 12.99 L D L B2 L F2 B' L F2 R' L B' F L B2 L U L2 D2 L' F2 D2 U' B' F
34. 19.21 R' L' U B' L2 R B2 L U L B D' R F' B2 U D2 L' F2 L2 U F B' R2 D
35. 12.97 B' L' D U R2 L2 U' L2 F L2 B' U' B2 L F2 B R U2 F R' L D' R U' R2
36. 13.61 L' D' R U2 D2 B' F' L' B' D' B' R F2 D2 L2 U' B' R2 F' R' L' F2 U' F R2
37. 15.69 F L' D' F' D' L F U' L R2 D' F L2 U2 L D' B F R' L B' F2 R2 D B'
38. 13.69 D2 F2 U2 L' U2 R D' L2 B F2 U2 F R F2 B R' D L' F2 R2 L' D B' L2 U
39. 16.68 L B L' B' R' L F B U2 D2 L U L U2 L' U D' L' F2 U2 D F' U' F2 D
40. 15.30 R U D B2 L2 B' D' U L2 U D' L' U R B' F2 D2 L2 D' U' L' R' B L F'
41. 14.67 L R' F R L' U R' F B2 D B D' L2 F' B' U2 L' U F D' B R' D L B
42. 11.19 U' L B2 U D' F U2 D2 B2 L B2 U' B2 R2 U' L' D2 F U' R2 B2 F' L' B2 R2
43. 14.33 L' F U L B D' L' B D' F2 R2 F' L' R2 U2 D B2 D F' R L F B U' F
44. 13.92 F2 U2 R' U2 L' U L' R U D L2 D' U' R U B F2 U2 B' D F' L R2 F D2
45. 15.22 D' B' R' F' R2 D' R D L' D2 U2 L U2 R' B L2 D' R' L U2 F R' D F2 U'
46. 13.90 F' L2 D' R2 F B' U' R2 B' D L U2 F2 B R' D' L' U B2 L B2 U' F R2 U'
47. 15.17 L D2 L2 B2 F R' D' U2 L2 D B2 R2 D L U' R2 B' L U2 R' F U2 L' F2 D'
48. 13.21 U R U L R2 F2 B U' B2 R' F U' L2 D2 F2 B' L D B F' L R B U' R'
49. 16.73 R' F2 R' U L B D2 R F2 R2 L2 B D' F2 R' D' L B2 D F B2 U F2 D2 B'
50. 14.60 B' D2 L2 F B L2 U D F' L B' U D2 R2 B R' B2 U2 R2 U2 D2 F D' B L'

EDIT: 10.13 NL

 

[LarsN]

Just found this nice sune variant trick for COL: U R U R' U R U2

Is anyone doing the suggested list of these tricks? Or else I might try something, but I don't know more tricks than posted here.