[WR] Tomasz Zolnowski 10.07 3x3x3 average

[DavidWoner]

So if you think it is a heat+pressure combo how can you explain how some stackmats got activated without touching them? The logical answer would be that they have the technology used in mouses, but it doesn't seem to be that, unless a bit of the surface were you put your hand let infrared rays pass through.

Because they are old and have been smashed so many times that the pressure sensor is constantly activated. Infrared doesn't really make sense.

 

[Stefan]

Its inductive.

Is that your guess or did SpeedStacks say that?

 

[Crossed]

Its inductive.

Is that your guess or did SpeedStacks say that?

Its a guess, my bad.
But it's sort of an educated guess, we learn about things like this in school.

 

[mazei]

I learned about nerve cells at school but it won't be such an educated guess to say StackMat timers have nerve cells on them(as in the nerve cells we have, not a "nerve cell")

 

[Crossed]

I learned about nerve cells at school but it won't be such an educated guess to say StackMat timers have nerve cells on them(as in the nerve cells we have, not a "nerve cell")

Ofcourse not, but we've learned about these kinds of components and it seems like they fit the properties of a Stackmat.

But this is way off topic.

 

[James Ludlow]

There's no denying, that was an amzing average of five. Congratulations.

Reference the "double touch", I have this problem on magic solves, so I came up with an ingenious(?) solution, turn the mat and timer around, so the puzzle begins nearer to you than the timer. You cannot read the time on the timer so well, as it is upside down, but it gets rid of this chance of tapping timers with forearms/ wrists etc.

 

[shelley]

I believe it was Shelley who told me about how some of the old Caltech timers would start even if you just held your hands close to them. So my money is on some sort of heat thing, although I can't really be sure.

Tried putting one hand on one side while exhaling closely with my mouth on the other...didn't work. Some technology they're using...:confused:

I just tried that on mine and it did work. I guess it is heat.

I think its heat+pressure combo. But then again, I remember once my timer was acting funny when I hooked it up to CCT. I didn't have to touch the pads and it would function.

I think its inductive. It regocnizes the resistance on each of the pads. When you breath on it your breath makes it wet and makes it go off.

anyway, congratulations on the WR. New WRs are allways awesome!

Tested that by wetting a timer pad with cold water. No go.

 

[riffz]

Its inductive.

Is that your guess or did SpeedStacks say that?

Its a guess, my bad.
But it's sort of an educated guess, we learn about things like this in school.

You learned how speedstack timers work in school?

 

[CharlieCooper]

@AVG : Get a good camera phone

this video was recorded on a camera phone. I think the quality isn't bad at all, but zoom would be nice

Yeah, this really is good.... You should have seen his other phone...

 

[Slash]

First of all, congratulations!!!!

I think stacks work with heat. I can start my stack with holding it near my lamp. And older ones can be stopped by taking your arms close to it.

 

[Cride5]

I believe it was Shelley who told me about how some of the old Caltech timers would start even if you just held your hands close to them. So my money is on some sort of heat thing, although I can't really be sure.

Tried putting one hand on one side while exhaling closely with my mouth on the other...didn't work. Some technology they're using...:confused:

I just tried that on mine and it did work. I guess it is heat.

I think its heat+pressure combo. But then again, I remember once my timer was acting funny when I hooked it up to CCT. I didn't have to touch the pads and it would function.

I think its inductive. It regocnizes the resistance on each of the pads. When you breath on it your breath makes it wet and makes it go off.

anyway, congratulations on the WR. New WRs are allways awesome!

Tested that by wetting a timer pad with cold water. No go.

I assumed it worked by sensing the electrical resistance across the two pads. That's why you need to use both hands. If you have an ohmmeter handy you'll see when you squeeze the terminals (one in each hand), you'll get about 10KOhms which is significantly less than the resistance of air across the same distance.

You can verify that it has to be electrical (rather than pressure) by pressing two non conductive objects (such as cubes :rolleyes against each terminal. If you bridge the gap with any conductive material it sets timer off. To experiment I used two blobs of wet toilet paper (one on each terminal), then wearing a motorbike glove I held a coat hanger between the terminals applying very little pressure ... needless to say, it set the timer off

 

[shelley]

I assumed it worked by sensing the electrical resistance across the two pads. That's why you need to use both hands. If you have an ohmmeter handy you'll see when you squeeze the terminals (one in each hand), you'll get about 10KOhms which is significantly less than the resistance of air across the same distance.

You can verify that it has to be electrical (rather than pressure) by pressing two non conductive objects (such as cubes :rolleyes against each terminal. If you bridge the gap with any conductive material it sets timer off. To experiment I used two blobs of wet toilet paper (one on each terminal), then wearing a motorbike glove I held a coat hanger between the terminals applying very little pressure ... needless to say, it set the timer off

Wait, you did that with the stackmat? or with your ohmmeter?

The stackmat can be started by two different people's hands. It can also be started by breathing on it. Or by putting it next to a hot lamp.

 

[Cride5]

I assumed it worked by sensing the electrical resistance across the two pads. That's why you need to use both hands. If you have an ohmmeter handy you'll see when you squeeze the terminals (one in each hand), you'll get about 10KOhms which is significantly less than the resistance of air across the same distance.

You can verify that it has to be electrical (rather than pressure) by pressing two non conductive objects (such as cubes :rolleyes against each terminal. If you bridge the gap with any conductive material it sets timer off. To experiment I used two blobs of wet toilet paper (one on each terminal), then wearing a motorbike glove I held a coat hanger between the terminals applying very little pressure ... needless to say, it set the timer off

Wait, you did that with the stackmat? or with your ohmmeter?

The stackmat can be started by two different people's hands. It can also be started by breathing on it. Or by putting it next to a hot lamp.

With my Stackmat, yeah. I tried breathing on mine till I went blue, but no joy

With two ppl's hands, were they holding other hands, and what kind of footwear/flooring was involved? It's possible for a small current to travel through the floor..

Another possibility is that the sensing mechanism has been changed in later versions, hmm.

 

[TobiasDaneels]

For some strange reason, my stackmat only works with one hand.
When I pull my left hand off, it doesn't start counting. And when finished if I only put my right hand down time stops.
It's strange because my timer seems to know the left hand pad is broken and doesn't need it anymore to function.

 

[Edmund]

Its inductive.

Is that your guess or did SpeedStacks say that?

Its a guess, my bad.
But it's sort of an educated guess, we learn about things like this in school.

You learned how speedstack timers work in school?

I believe he learned about deductive and inductive reasoning for statements made.

 

[riffz]

Its inductive.

Is that your guess or did SpeedStacks say that?

Its a guess, my bad.
But it's sort of an educated guess, we learn about things like this in school.

You learned how speedstack timers work in school?

I believe he learned about deductive and inductive reasoning for statements made.

My comment was sarcasm.

 

[Toire-Dakku]

I hope someone hears me out. I feel that this average is very unfair. To the Philippine competitions I have been, I have not seen a single 0.02 or 0.03 credited an extra solve. Let alone 0.15s. How can this be different to Tomasz's situation? It even happened to him twice in one average.

The judges and our delegates here have agreed to make a rule that competitors should have the responsbility of checking the timers for defects or malfunctions. There can be no complaining or asking for extra solves after the judge/delegate's decision, which usually is a no anyway. I only agreed to this, because I know that these problems can be avoided by lifting your hands upwards quickly from the timer. I've never gotten a 0.02 on competition because of this precaution, even though it kind of slows me down a bit. But knowing that the rules are looser in different competitions, I just had to complain about it.

If we'd like, we are given the freedom to move to a different table with a different stackmat timer. But that's it.

I'm not saying that Tomasz's average should be removed, or the rest of the world follow this rule. But can't we have that privilege of an extra solve too? Or at least a clear statement of what can be counted as a timer defect, or the competitor's fault.



BTW about the stackmat timers, I don't think it recognizes heat. I've tried coins which are definitely cold, and they still work. Maybe you guys would like to try it out.

I have little knowledge with these technology, but that's what I think based on my little test.

 

[Stefan]

To the Philippine competitions I have been, I have not seen a single 0.02 or 0.03 credited an extra solve.

Just to be clear: Have you seen a 0.02 or 0.03 *not* credited an extra solve?

 

[Toire-Dakku]

To the Philippine competitions I have been, I have not seen a single 0.02 or 0.03 credited an extra solve.

Just to be clear: Have you seen a 0.02 or 0.03 *not* credited an extra solve?

Sorry for the confusion haha. From all of the 0.02s and 0.03s i've seen, none of them were credited and extra solve.

 

[Mike Hughey]

To the Philippine competitions I have been, I have not seen a single 0.02 or 0.03 credited an extra solve.

Just to be clear: Have you seen a 0.02 or 0.03 *not* credited an extra solve?

Sorry for the confusion haha. From all of the 0.02s and 0.03s i've seen, none of them were credited and extra solve.

Actually, I'd like to know this: how many times did you see a 0.02 or 0.03 treated as a DNF? I'd like to know the number of times you saw this happen in competition.

I *think* I remember Bob Burton declaring a 0.03 as a DNF, because he thought only a 0.02 was a legitimate timer malfunction. But I could be remembering that wrong - if I'm not using a memory system, my memory is not all that reliable. Since I can't even remember what competition that was at, I would say my memory is pretty unreliable on this. I certainly can't remember who the DNF went to.