Should minimum move counts be removed?

[OtaMota]

You may know that the default minimum move count for events is 2, but for some events, it is more than that (4 2x2, 6 pyra, 7 skewb, 11 Sq-1)

Certain scrambles are not allowed when move counts are imposed. My opinion is that they should not. Getting lucky is not a crime, and minimum move counts can be quite arbitrary. Skewb has slightly less possible states than 2x2, and the same god number of 11, yet 2x2 can go as low as 4, while skewb is stuck at 7. Pyra has a lot more states than skewb, though 6 movers are on pyra and not Skewb. I find these quite arbitrary.

People may say that low move counters would give records to slow people, but is that much of a bad thing? We use averages to determine who wins comps and more emphasis is put on cubers with a better average. Yiheng is a faster cuber than Yusheng Du, even though Yusheng Du has a faster single, Yiheng is the one in Monkey League and not Yusheng, because we already understand that single does not determine the best cuber. People getting singles should not matter much in a sport that is heavily RNG, I think that the minimum move count for all events should be a uniform 2 moves, if not lower.

 

[JDAW6]

This is the funniest thing I have seen all day.

 

[CatSharked]

7 moves for pyra and 6 moves for skewb would be good, but 2 movers are just unfair.

For 5x5+ it says 2 moves because anything even close to that is nearly impossible

 

[Jorian Meeuse]

You may know that the default minimum move count for events is 2, but for some events, it is more than that (4 2x2, 6 pyra, 7 skewb, 11 Sq-1)

Certain scrambles are not allowed when move counts are imposed. My opinion is that they should not. Getting lucky is not a crime, and minimum move counts can be quite arbitrary. Skewb has slightly less possible states than 2x2, and the same god number of 11, yet 2x2 can go as low as 4, while skewb is stuck at 7. Pyra has a lot more states than skewb, though 6 movers are on pyra and not Skewb. I find these quite arbitrary.

People may say that low move counters would give records to slow people, but is that much of a bad thing? We use averages to determine who wins comps and more emphasis is put on cubers with a better average. Yiheng is a faster cuber than Yusheng Du, even though Yusheng Du has a faster single, Yiheng is the one in Monkey League and not Yusheng, because we already understand that single does not determine the best cuber. People getting singles should not matter much in a sport that is heavily RNG, I think that the minimum move count for all events should be a uniform 2 moves, if not lower.

At least have the minimum not be 0, if I receive a solved 7x7 I want to be certain the cube hasn't been scrambled correctly, without risking the DNF.

 

[OtaMota]

but 2 movers are just unfair.

What makes it unfair?

 

[CatSharked]

What makes it unfair?

Anyone with fingers could break the world record.

 

[OtaMota]

Anyone with fingers could break the world record.

Not necessarily, you would still have to execute it fast. What is so important about WR single anyway?

 

[JDAW6]

Not necessarily, you would still have to execute it fast. What is so important about WR single anyway?

Recognition, fame and money..

 

[CatSharked]

Not necessarily, you would still have to execute it fast. What is so important about WR single anyway?

It's the world record. Most people would consider you the best in the world

 

[OtaMota]

Recognition, fame and money..

In that case, I think as a community, we need to put a lot more emphasis on averages, as they determine who is the best, not single in a low possible state event.

 

[CatSharked]

In that case, I think as a community, we need to put a lot more emphasis on averages, as they determine who is the best, not single in a low possible state event.

or, we could focus on both, and keep things fair. Pyraminx and skewb minimum move counts can be changed, but not 2x2, 4 moves is the lowest it should go.

 

[OtaMota]

or, we could focus on both, and keep things fair. Pyraminx and skewb minimum move counts can be changed, but not 2x2, 4 moves is the lowest it should go.

If a puzzle has the capability that a 3 mover is not a crazy probability, and has a real chance of happening in comp, should they not be allowed?

I think this quote from Erik Akkersdijk explains what I mean.

 

[JDAW6]

If a puzzle has the capability that a 3 mover is not a crazy probability, and has a real chance of happening in comp, should they not be allowed?

I think this quote from Erik Akkersdijk explains what I mean.

View attachment 27792

I am going to do a ao12 with random move scrambles and show you why it shouldn’t be random

 

[CatSharked]

If a puzzle has the capability that a 3 mover is not a crazy probability, and has a real chance of happening in comp, should they not be allowed?

Yes, I get it. But this would completely change 2x2. It would become really easy. Which I guess 2x2 is supposed to be easy, but 3 movers just don't really seem fair.

 

[OtaMota]

Yes, I get it. But this would completely change 2x2. It would become really easy. Which I guess 2x2 is supposed to be easy, but 3 movers just don't really seem fair.

How would it completely change 2x2? 3 movers would barely, if at all effect averages. 2x2ers don't go into every solve trying to get WR single.

 

[CatSharked]

Okay fine I changed my vote. But if 2x2 is going to be an extremely short event, we need an extremely long event to keep balance. I say that 8x8 should be added to the WCA.

 

[JDAW6]

I am going to do a ao12 with random move scrambles and show you why it shouldn’t be random

I avg low 3

 

[OtaMota]

Okay fine I changed my vote. But if 2x2 is going to be an extremely short event, we need an extremely long event to keep balance. I say that 8x8 should be added to the WCA.

MBLD is already a long event though, probably the least scramble event you can get. Its number of permutations for a 60 cube attempt is something like 10^1140, if not more, powers upon powers greater than 8x8's 10^217

I avg low 3 View attachment 27793

Could you use a random state scrambler?

 

[JDAW6]

MBLD is already a long event though, probably the least scramble event you can get. Its number of permutations for a 60 cube attempt is something like 10^1140, if not more, powers upon powers greater than 8x8's 10^217


Could you use a random state scrambler?

But they don’t show 3 movers go through.

 

[OtaMota]

But they don’t show 3 movers go through.

The problem with random move scramblers is that the probability of 4 movers and the like are not equally distributed.

With your experiment, did you even get a 3 mover? All you demonstrated is what 2x2 would be like with a random move generator.