Does CCW U-perm occur more often when using 2 look PLL?

[Tetris Cube]

According to several sites, they both occur at a 1/18 chance. I only know 13 PLLs right now, so about half the time I have to use 2 look. But two look or not, I seem to be using the CCW U-perm much more often, rather than the CW one, whether I 2 look or not on that solve. I'd say at least 5 times more often. Is this just a coincidence, or does it occur more often? It doesn't matter anyway, because the CCW one is much faster/easier for me.

 

[byu]

Coincidence. They both have the same occurrence rate.

 

[Tetris Cube]

Fair enough, it's just my streak of luck, I guess.

 

[mcciff2112]

i tend to get the ccw u perm a lot when i 2 look from a g perm, which occur very often. i know all the plls except for the gs now so i rarely ever get the clockwise one, only if i miss an r perm or something and i 2 look it instead of one

 

[Stefan]

I'd say at least 5 times more often.

I think you're wrong. Hard stats or it didn't happen.

 

[blade740]

When you get 2look PLL, do you always do the same algorithm to permute the corners? The only way I could see a difference like you claim is if you used, say, T in one case, and J in others, and that combination happened to lead to ccw more.

 

[Sir E Brum]

I'd say at least 5 times more often.

I think you're wrong. Hard stats or it didn't happen.

Finally, someone who actually goes with statistics.

 

[TMOY]

i tend to get the ccw u perm a lot when i 2 look from a g perm, which occur very often. i know all the plls except for the gs now so i rarely ever get the clockwise one, only if i miss an r perm or something and i 2 look it instead of one

To solve a G-perm (any one of them) with 2 looks, assuming you start with corners, you can do either:
- CW A-perm then CCW U-perm,
- CCW A-perm then CW U-perm.
If you always start with a CW A-perm, then you will always get a CCW U-perm.

 

[abr71310]

I get CCW U perms and CW U perms at the same rate with full OLL (unless I get an N or a G perm, in which I get a U-perm after a T-perm... lol)

 

[AvGalen]

The TS should make a list of all 21 PLL's and then tell us how he would which PLL's he knows and how he would solve the other PLL's

 

[rjohnson_8ball]

Perhaps (but probably not) hand scrambling could cause the skewed results. More likely, you do your mirrored algorithms (F2L or OLL) differently than the non-mirrored ones. That could cause CW U perm to come up less often than CCW U perm. Or, it could be just a streak.

 

[nitrocan]

It's probably because, you don't know the PLL's that you do an algorithm to set the corners and then you will have to do a CCW U-Perm.

 

[Tetris Cube]

i tend to get the ccw u perm a lot when i 2 look from a g perm, which occur very often. i know all the plls except for the gs now so i rarely ever get the clockwise one, only if i miss an r perm or something and i 2 look it instead of one

To solve a G-perm (any one of them) with 2 looks, assuming you start with corners, you can do either:
- CW A-perm then CCW U-perm,
- CCW A-perm then CW U-perm.
If you always start with a CW A-perm, then you will always get a CCW U-perm.

This sounds like what I do... It's what badmephisto's tutorial tells you to do. Makes sense, if this is right. I know all PLLs besides G's, N's, and F. When I run into a G or F, I use CW A-perm, and when I run into an N, I use Y. Then followed by a U perm for each. Otherwise I use the corresponding algorithm.

 

[Stefan]

Guys, your explanation must be wrong, because he clearly said:

But two look or not, I seem to be using the CCW U-perm much more often, rather than the CW one, whether I 2 look or not on that solve. I'd say at least 5 times more often.

 

[AvGalen]

Guys, your explanation must be wrong, because he clearly said:

But two look or not, I seem to be using the CCW U-perm much more often, rather than the CW one, whether I 2 look or not on that solve. I'd say at least 5 times more often.

Or (much more likely), our explanation is correct but the things Tetris Cube says are wrong. He already mentioned that he doesn't know all PLL's so that makes "two look or not" a big questionmark for me. And just like you, I think "at least 5 times more often" needs to be backed up with statistical analysis.

Tetris Cube, could you please do the following:
Do 100 scrambles/solves. After OLL, write down which PLL you had (not just G, we need to know which G). Then write down if/which U-Perm you did

So
1, cw-A, no U
2, ccs-A, no U
3, H, no U
4, G-2, cw-U
etc

 

[Stefan]

He already mentioned that he doesn't know all PLL's so that makes "two look or not" a big questionmark for me.

It simply means that he has this ratio not only in two-look cases, but also in one-look cases. So he gets CCW U perm right after OLL at least five times more often than he gets CW U perm rigth after OLL.

 

[AvGalen]

He already mentioned that he doesn't know all PLL's so that makes "two look or not" a big questionmark for me.

It simply means that he has this ratio not only in two-look cases, but also in one-look cases. So he gets CCW U perm right after OLL at least five times more often than he gets CW U perm rigth after OLL.

It SHOULD mean that, but I think he meant "If I get to PLL I either do a 1 look or a 2 look PLL. I get CCW U perm at least five times......"

But enough guessing what he means. Let him do the scientific thing and analyse his results later. My money would be on "both U perms happen just about as often" and not on "at least 5 times more often"

 

[TMOY]

If I make the following assumptions:
- he knows all the PLLs except Gs;
- he gets a CCW U-perm every time he solves a G in two looks,
then he will get a CW U-perm 4 times out of 72 and a CCW U-perm 20 times out of 72 (4 for the U itself and 4 for each one of the Gs). That's exactly five times more often.
Of course my assumptions may be wrong but the "five times" doesn't seem unreasonable to me anyway.

 

[Tetris Cube]

Since it's kind of late, I really don't want to do 100 scrambles now, plus it would take a long time. I might do it later with a lesser amount of solves when I have time.

What I mean by "two look or not", I mean all of my solves overall, because I don't know all PLLs. You would have the assume I two-look G-perms anyway; what else would I do, scramble the cube after getting to it? I do acknowledge the fact that both U-perms occur at an equal rate right after OLL, but since I use two-look for some cases, I use one more than the other.

Right now I'm going to just assume TMOY is right. I think doing a CW A-perm on a G-perm case always ends up with a CCW U-perm, from what I remember from my last cubing session.