Sub20 Solvers using 3LLL?

[CanadianPires]

I've read in several posts to ppl asking how to get sub20 or to newcomers getting advice on how to continue after the beginners method that there are "several cubers out there who average sub20 with a 3LLL". Yet this always seems to be quite a vague statement and no names are thrown around. Anyone out there want to point me in the direction of a vid of someone doing just that. Im on the brink of sub20 with 3LLL and im wondering what pushed you passed those last few seconds. Mind you, im not interested in someone who knows full fridrich but can still get sub20 with 3LLL, im really interested in hearing from someone in the same position as me, thanks though. Also I'd like to compare step times and pauses etc to see where I may be lacking. Thanks.

Slowly making my way to sub20,
CanadianPires

 

[DavidWoner]

I got a 18.95 avg without knowing full PLL. I know there are a number of people (waris ali, sikan li, others) who are sub15 with 1/2-2/3 of OLL

Right now I know about 40-45 OLLs and my best avg is 15.96. algs aren't very important. A good f2l will do you well.

 

[AlanAlanine]

My friend averaged about 16-17 with a 2 look OLL last year. He's sub-15 now and knows full OLL. I won't tell you his name because i don't know if i want to invade his privacy like that, but i'm not making it up. he's pretty ridiculous though...

i'd recommend learning full OLL. I'm about where you are in terms of times (a little faster) and I have to learn 20 more OLLs and I know full PLL. I can sub-20 avg of 5 on a good day. Although I can get very fast solves using two-look OLL for cases I don't know, it's really nice to be able to do the optimal orientation alg. [on a side note, from your signature i suggest that you learn Yu Nakajima's N perms, since they're pretty good (he does them side-cross).]

Just trust everyone when they say that the two-look OLL is not what's holding you back. I've had 14.xx solves where I didn't know the OLL so I used two-look, and I've had like 30 second solves knowing the OLL. It's really all in f2l and look ahead.

 

[Ellis]

I average somewhere around 17-19 and have yet to learn full OLL. I even find myself reverting to 2 look on cases that I know. I was stuck at like 21-22 for a looong time, but OLL wasn't what got me sub 20, it was F2L.

 

[Kian]

i average just under 20. i know only the 7 olls with all edges oriented. i really should learn the rest.

as for breakdowns. my f2l average is about 13. i can sub-2 about 7 or 8 plls. the oll really kills me. hope that helps.

also, i think the most important step for you would be learning those two n perms. they're not fun but it will definitely help and it's a lot faster than learning 57 olls.

 

[Leviticus]

I know about 3/4 of OLL and all PLL, my best average of 12 is 13.44. It's all in the F2L, sub 8 F2L FTW. For sub 20, your breakdown should be something like this: 13-4-3? F2L-OLL-PLL

 

[shadowclad002]

Real live witnesses. Hmm.. I get it. f2l IS two-thirds of the cube solution in Fridrich.

 

[Joseph Gibney]

I average around 13.5 seconds, and I've had a handful of 12.xx averages of 12 using 3LLL.

I know none of the algs for cases where all edges are misoriented and to be honest I only know 19 PLLs. This means I can actually still have a 5 look last layer, which has even happened once in competition (19.38 second solve, crappy F2L too). However for a number of orientations I know which two OLLs will solve the case, and for several I make use of cancellations, so sometimes my OLL is one look, but two algs.

I'm sure learning all 57 OLLs will shave off a second or so from your times, so it would probably be a pretty simple way to get sub 20, but clearly it is not necessary to learn them in a hurry. I regret never learning them, and I plan to learn them pretty soon. (lol, not the first time I've said that... ) Good luck with sub 20!

 

[AvGalen]

I average just above 20, but I use 4LLL (and keyhole for F2L)

Erik has posted video's of a sub 20 average with 4LLL and layer-by-layer

Getting fast is all about turning fast and having good look-ahead

 

[mrbiggs]

I use 2 look OLL.

On a decent average of 5 I usually get 18.xx. If I'm warmed up I rarely get averages over 20.

EDIT: here's an average of 12, not bad for me, not great either:

(22.72) 19.39 21.53 21.47 (15.43) 18.34 20.36 19.35 16.88 17.41 19.70 19.25 = 19.32


I divide all cases into eOLL and cOLL with two exceptions which I know from my y-perm PLL, and one more I know from BLD. (If I already had to memorize them, why not use them...)

eOLL is VERY fast, especially if you do it while inserting the last pair. Honestly, if I learned full OLL, I don't think my times would drop by more than a second, and I'd be surprised if it was anywhere near that much. Furthermore, most of that could be made up for by increasing my last pair insertion knowledge.

Honestly, the reason names are never mentioned is not because it's rare, but because it's not a big deal. If someone got sub-14 with 3LLL, you'd probably hear about them. I think such a person does not exist (to my knowledge at least) not because it's impossible, but because if you get that fast, you've put enough effort in that you've gotten around to learning all the OLLs.

 

[flee135]

When I learned all the OLL cases, I did not see any immediate changes. It probably helped in the long run as my F2L improved though.

I do have a friend who I believe uses 2 look OLL and 19 PLL algorithms and averaged sub-20. He hasn't been cubing too much recently though, so I don't know about now.

 

[Gnjac3]

I am about to avg sub 20 with 2 oll, my name is Gnjac3

 

[fanwuq]

Yeah, sub-20 with 3LLL.
I hate the idea of OLL and have been avoiding to learn them for over a year. I think I've found a good compromise with VHF2L and COLL.

 

[Lotsofsloths]

I use 3LLL sometimes and I get 13-14 averages.

 

[4weeksAndImSub60]

My friend averaged about 16-17 with a 2 look OLL last year. He's sub-15 now and knows full OLL. I won't tell you his name because i don't know if i want to invade his privacy like that, but i'm not making it up. he's pretty ridiculous though...

i'd recommend learning full OLL. I'm about where you are in terms of times (a little faster) and I have to learn 20 more OLLs and I know full PLL. I can sub-20 avg of 5 on a good day. Although I can get very fast solves using two-look OLL for cases I don't know, it's really nice to be able to do the optimal orientation alg. [on a side note, from your signature i suggest that you learn Yu Nakajima's N perms, since they're pretty good (he does them side-cross).]

Just trust everyone when they say that the two-look OLL is not what's holding you back. I've had 14.xx solves where I didn't know the OLL so I used two-look, and I've had like 30 second solves knowing the OLL. It's really all in f2l and look ahead.

If it's anything that holds you back it would be the 4lll. I average F2L in sub-20, but whenever I get a case in which I have no edges oriented, and then my opposite edges correct and then no corners oriented, then it racks up 15 seconds. That's why I have horrible SD. However I still got a few sub 25s. And my best average is sub 35.

 

[CanadianPires]

I know about 3/4 of OLL and all PLL, my best average of 12 is 13.44. It's all in the F2L, sub 8 F2L FTW. For sub 20, your breakdown should be something like this: 13-4-3? F2L-OLL-PLL

Yeah, my breakdown is more like 15-4.5-3.5 on average. I know theres ALWAYS room to improve on F2L (turn speed and lookahead) and i think my cross to 1st pair transition is pretty terrible. I always find myself staring there after cross like a deer in headlights looking for the first pair.

Thanks for the encouragement on sub20 w/ 3LLL guys, especially whoever said they were ~13.5, thats ridiculous!

 

[nitrocan]

Sub20 with 3LLL = Sub18 with 2LLL

 

[brunson]

I'm asymptotically approaching 30s average (math humor). I know full OLL and PLL (many PLLs from multiple orientations), I also know a crap load of ZBLS, about 1/3 of MGLS and several dozen special cases for last slot and open slot F2Ls. My look ahead sucks and my finger tricks are crap, I also lose a lot of time transitioning from my cross to F2L. All these things I suck at are more important than memorizing algorithms.

 

[Garmon]

I'm on 4LLL still, and nearly sub 20.

 

[shelley]

Brittany Dzoan used 2 look OLL. At her peak she had a 15 second competition average.