Older cubers discussions

[kbrune]

Keep an eye out on ebay, and maybe try the twistypuzzles.com forum. They do come up from time to time. You could also post a WTB on the buy/sell/trade forum or on the twistypuzzles forum.

Will do thanks.

I noticed that you know a lot about many puzzles by your posts. Any advice on what I should look for or ask about before buying a cube that size.

I've heard they can be unstable?

 

[One Wheel]

Will do thanks.

I noticed that you know a lot about many puzzles by your posts. Any advice on what I should look for or ask about before buying a cube that size.

I've heard they can be unstable?

Not sure I can say I know a lot, but I do enjoy the hardware. I sold a 13x13 a few months back. Most of the questions I got had to do with sticker quality. I never solved the one I had, but I did make a few turns, checkerboard it, etc., and I have to say I was very impressed by the build quality. The Moyu 13x13 is in my observation an exceptionally high quality puzzle. The only other thing I can think to ask is if it's been dropped. It would really be a pain if a piece is broken off or bent inside.

 

[pglewis]

I learned the antisune cases some time ago and I'm still not sure if I'm faster than using 2-look, this should tell me I should start learning the sune cases as soon as possible but it's doing the opposite

I assume this is Roux/CMLL? Have you been using straight OLL then fixing up corner permutation separately? Never looked deeply into Roux so I'm somewhat ignorant but I'm very interested in LL theory.

 

[Fyzzna]

Mo100 PB: 18.080 (was 18.265 from 3 weeks ago)

My goal this year was to average sub-18, now (sometimes) I feel I'm almost sub-19, maybe I'll not be sub-18 in 2017 but it will be close.

I learned the antisune cases some time ago and I'm still not sure if I'm faster than using 2-look, this should tell me I should start learning the sune cases as soon as possible but it's doing the opposite

Tbh if you already know all the L cases then Sune recog should be a breeze They're all reasonably fast (except for columns, **** columns) and Sune forward slash is just a shortened version of Pi back slash (meaning only 4 algs to learn). You're definitely going to be slower than 2 look at first, but it's worth it in the long run

I assume this is Roux/CMLL? Have you been using straight OLL then fixing up corner permutation separately? Never looked deeply into Roux so I'm somewhat ignorant but I'm very interested in LL theory.

He's probaly been using 2 look CMLL. How it works is you have 7 cases for corner orientation and 2 cases for corner permutation. Very few algs because you don't care about edges at all

 

[pglewis]

He's probaly been using 2 look CMLL. How it works is you have 7 cases for corner orientation and 2 cases for corner permutation. Very few algs because you don't care about edges at all

Okay, yeah... I assume just the 7 standard OCLL algs and ignoring edges, for 2-look.

You're definitely going to be slower than 2 look at first, but it's worth it in the long run

It's definitely a longer term investment in my case. I fully anticipated it destroying my solves for a little while and so far mission accomplished lol.

But how long could you have possibly spent 2-looking? My memory is you shot straight to 15 seconds in about the time I progressed from 35 to 30

 

[Fyzzna]

Okay, yeah... I assume just the 7 standard OCLL algs and ignoring edges, for 2-look.

Possibly? Sadly, I'm not that well versed in LL theory

Here are the algs most people learn for two look anyway:

Spoiler

Adjacent Swap: R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R'
Diagonal Swap: F R U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R F'
H: F R U R' U' R U R' U' R U R' U' F' or R U R' U R U' R' U R U2' R'
Pi: F R U R' U' R U R' U' F'
U: F R U R' U' F'
T: R U R' U' R' F R F'
S: R U R' U R U2 R'
As: R' U' R U' R' U2’ R
L: F R U' R' U' R U R' F'

But how long could you have possibly spent 2-looking? My memory is you shot straight to 15 seconds in about the time I progressed from 35 to 30

Haha I'm not quite at 15 seconds yet, but I'll keep trying I only learned one look mid August so really did spend quite a long time two looking.

 

[newtonbase]

Did some non blind practice for the first time in ages. I haven't miraculously improved in 3x3 but I don't think I've timed any solves since Manchester. Did get a PLL skip on 4x4 (untimed) then tried an easy blind scramble and got my first sub 1 min DNF.
D2 F' L2 D2 B' U2 F' R2 B2 D2 B' D B2 D F' U' F R D' U2 R' Fw' Uw c/o Graham Siggins

 

[muchacho]

I've timed myself in the alg trainer, apparently for antisune cases I'm almost half a second faster than using 2-look (when I don't screw it up). But almost 4 seconds including AUF

 

[pglewis]

Possibly? Sadly, I'm not that well versed in LL theory

Here are the algs most people learn for two look anyway:

Oh, duh... the same seven case names but using OCLLs wouldn't be optimized since you don't need to preserve U layer edges at that step with Roux (OCLL assumes edges are already oriented with an edges first 2-look).

 

[One Wheel]

I'm making another (hopefully last) stab at learning M2. I think I've finally figured something out, and thought I'd ask the experts: with OP I'm in the habit of memorizing the target sticker next, but applying M-slice target algs to a solved cube I see that when I shoot my DB target (U2 M' U2 M') the sticker that was in the UB spot is in my buffer, rather than the sticker that was in the DB spot as would be the case with OP. I'm sure I'm either doing something wrong or this is something so elementary that it's just assumed, but I've watched a couple of tutorials and they talk about switching UF/DB and FU/BD depending on odd or even target but I haven't heard this mentioned.

DB next sticker is in UB spot
BU next sticker is in FU spot
UF next sticker is in DB spot
FU next sticker is in DB spot

Am I still missing something, or did I finally figure out what everybody else knew all along?

E: I tried it on a scrambled cube and now I'm just confused. I'll try again tomorrow.

 

[newtonbase]

I'm making another (hopefully last) stab at learning M2. I think I've finally figured something out, and thought I'd ask the experts: with OP I'm in the habit of memorizing the target sticker next, but applying M-slice target algs to a solved cube I see that when I shoot my DB target (U2 M' U2 M') the sticker that was in the UB spot is in my buffer, rather than the sticker that was in the DB spot as would be the case with OP. I'm sure I'm either doing something wrong or this is something so elementary that it's just assumed, but I've watched a couple of tutorials and they talk about switching UF/DB and FU/BD depending on odd or even target but I haven't heard this mentioned.

DB next sticker is in UB spot
BU next sticker is in FU spot
UF next sticker is in DB spot
FU next sticker is in DB spot

Am I still missing something, or did I finally figure out what everybody else knew all along?

E: I tried it on a scrambled cube and now I'm just confused. I'll try again tomorrow.

This is one of the complications of M2. If FU, UF, BD or DB are the first letter in a pair (odd position in your memo) then do the standard alg. But, if they are the 2nd letter in the pair (even position in your memo) then they need to be executed as if they are an M2 away from their normal position so FU becomes BD, UF becomes DB, BD becomes FU and DB becomes UF.
UB/BU is not effected by this!
Also, U2 M' U2 M' is the alg for UF and is only used on DB if it is the 2nd letter in the pair.

 

[mitja]

Oh, duh... the same seven case names but using OCLLs wouldn't be optimized since you don't need to preserve U layer edges at that step with Roux (OCLL assumes edges are already oriented with an edges first 2-look).

Why wouldn't you just use Ortega method from 2x2?

 

[mark49152]

Why wouldn't you just use Ortega method from 2x2?

Some of the Ortega OLLs don't preserve the Roux blocks.

 

[openseas]

I'm making another (hopefully last) stab at learning M2. I think I've finally figured something out, and thought I'd ask the experts: with OP I'm in the habit of memorizing the target sticker next, but applying M-slice target algs to a solved cube I see that when I shoot my DB target (U2 M' U2 M') the sticker that was in the UB spot is in my buffer, rather than the sticker that was in the DB spot as would be the case with OP. I'm sure I'm either doing something wrong or this is something so elementary that it's just assumed, but I've watched a couple of tutorials and they talk about switching UF/DB and FU/BD depending on odd or even target but I haven't heard this mentioned.

DB next sticker is in UB spot
BU next sticker is in FU spot
UF next sticker is in DB spot
FU next sticker is in DB spot

Am I still missing something, or did I finally figure out what everybody else knew all along?

E: I tried it on a scrambled cube and now I'm just confused. I'll try again tomorrow.

As @newtonbase explained, these are the cases you need to shoot opposite side for M2, and also for u2& r2 (4BLD). Just think that fact that you are turning slices twice so that your biffer and target had bee switched ti the opposite direction. When you do the first part of the letter pair, everything is in place but for the 2nd pair, since you did M2, all M slice pieces are in the opposite side.

Once you realize and practice a little bit, it will become natural.

 

[Jason Green]

I think I need an image list. :rolleyes:

I said before I like coming up with them on the fly, but I'm realizing more that I'm basically just coming up with sentences with maybe one or two images if I'm lucky. I think for 3 BLD which is all I'm doing so far it does not matter as much, but this is also why multi seems like such a hard concept now, my memo wouldn't work very well. Any recommendations on format if I start a list? I know some have been shared (I think). Probably just a big spreadsheet I suppose.

 

[mark49152]

Any recommendations on format if I start a list? I know some have been shared (I think). Probably just a big spreadsheet I suppose.

I started out with a spreadsheet. Then when I started relying on Anki I ended up editing the Anki files more and more to refine my list. I still keep the spreadsheet as a "master" but it often falls out of sync. If you plan to use Anki or similar and are happy enough to use their format (linear list) as a master that would be more convenient I guess.

 

[pglewis]

... but applying M-slice target algs to a solved cube I see that...

I actually think M2 can be more confusing sighted than blind. Like edges swapping with OP corners, if you just follow your memo and the rules everything simply works itself out. I memo M2 normally and just remember to swap certain even targets so that MI is executed as MS, or you can swap it during memo so that you actually memo MS (Mark does this).

For straight M2 sighted practice without memo you might consider figuring out and solving 2 pieces at a time so you're not trying to memo/trace against a shifted M slice (which you'd never encounter during a real blind solve).

 

[pglewis]

I think I need an image list. :rolleyes:

I said before I like coming up with them on the fly, but I'm realizing more that I'm basically just coming up with sentences with maybe one or two images if I'm lucky. I think for 3 BLD which is all I'm doing so far it does not matter as much, but this is also why multi seems like such a hard concept now, my memo wouldn't work very well. Any recommendations on format if I start a list? I know some have been shared (I think). Probably just a big spreadsheet I suppose.

I'm just using a Google spreadsheet with A-X as both columns and rows. My three primary resources:

http://peoplebyinitials.com/
http://www.abbreviations.com/
and good 'ol Wikipedia: https://www.wikipedia.org/

 

[mitja]

I actually think M2 can be more confusing sighted than blind. Like edges swapping with OP corners, if you just follow your memo and the rules everything simply works itself out. I memo M2 normally and just remember to swap certain even targets so that MI is executed as MS, or you can swap it during memo so that you actually memo MS (Mark does this).

For straight M2 sighted practice without memo you might consider figuring out and solving 2 pieces at a time so you're not trying to memo against a shifted M slice (which you'd never encounter during a real blind solve).

I must say I also had a problem with sighted rehearsal for M2. The problem were middle edges, but just at the beginning. Funny, much less problems when rehearsing blind. My problem is memo images. I never tried harder to make a list of images. I like to make them on the fly, maybe that's just my imagination.( I am a Choreographer by profession for 30 years and love to imagine and create on the fly) I like to give a challenge to my mind(not that young any more, especially on this forum). That's the main reason for speedcubing. But, I know I have to start doing the list of images.
My problem is, I don't use speffz just my own set of letters. I memo in two languges slovenian and english, that way i get more interesting images. I guess memo goes much faster by regullar set of images.

 

[pglewis]

But, I know I have to start doing the list of images.

It's a lot of images to collect so it's definitely a long-term project. I think most people do better "on the fly" than I do so I put a lot of attention into my image list from the start back in Jan; it still has plenty of holes. If you're going to spend the time to dig up images for your pairs I'd definitely take the extra time to make sure they're "good" images... something vivid enough to visualize well and properly leverage your visual image memory.

My problem is, I don't use speffz just my own set of letters. I memo in two languges slovenian and english, that way i get more interesting images. I guess memo goes much faster by regullar set of images.

Not using speffz has the downside that it can be a little trickier sharing images and generally communicating with speffz users. I'm very slow deciphering the universal LB or UBR notation because I never practice that but a speffz letter is mostly automatic. I completely understand that speffz might not be the best choice for some languages, though.