Older cubers discussions

[newtonbase]

I try not to do too much sighted practice in blind, especially for comms. I find that the focus is different and I don't learn too well. I'd rather plan a couple of pieces, execute them blind, and then check them. It can be a little harder to work out where the mistakes were made but I learn better that way. I'm sure it's horses for courses.

 

[Gomorrite]

I'm an old cuber who has never solved it blindfolded. I made a first but weak attempt to learn 7 years ago, with the Old Pochmann method, then I stopped cubing until very recently. The furthest I got was solving all the edges with the cube under the table while looking at some notes. Now I see that the most recommended method for beginners is M2 for edges, but OP for corners. I wonder, is this much faster than full OP? I have already read about and understood the whole M2/OP, I just need to put it to practice, but I'm so lazy...

 

[h2f]

Now I see that the most recommended method for beginners is M2 for edges, but OP for corners. I wonder, is this much faster than full OP? I have already read about and understood the whole M2/OP, I just need to put it to practice, but I'm so lazy...

M2 is much faster than OP for edges - it's almost as fast as Turbo.

 

[newtonbase]

I'm an old cuber who has never solved it blindfolded. I made a first but weak attempt to learn 7 years ago, with the Old Pochmann method, then I stopped cubing until very recently. The furthest I got was solving all the edges with the cube under the table while looking at some notes. Now I see that the most recommended method for beginners is M2 for edges, but OP for corners. I wonder, is this much faster than full OP? I have already read about and understood the whole M2/OP, I just need to put it to practice, but I'm so lazy...

M2 is much faster than OP for edges - it's almost as fast as Turbo.

Yes. Slightly harder to learn but much lower move count.

 

[mark49152]

I try not to do too much sighted practice in blind, especially for comms. I find that the focus is different and I don't learn too well.

As you say, it's horses for courses, but I do think for people who are learning BLD it makes no sense to practise blind with a method they cannot yet do sighted. I've read messages here where people say they struggle with M2 because they can't figure out what's going on with the M slice. Well, actually it's pretty easy to see what's going on if you let yourself see it .

M2 is much faster than OP for edges - it's almost as fast as Turbo.

Great, another M2 versus Turbo debate . Of course the obvious question is what you mean by "fast" as speed is not something that can be objectively measured for a method. M2 has lower move count, simpler setups, and the advantage that there are many advanced techniques that can take you a long way towards 3-style. Some of those techniques bring in the best bits of Turbo anyway, like setups to U M' U2 M U.

 

[h2f]

Great, another M2 versus Turbo debate . Of course the obvious question is what you mean by "fast" as speed is not something that can be objectively measured for a method. M2 has lower move count, simpler setups, and the advantage that there are many advanced techniques that can take you a long way towards 3-style. Some of those techniques bring in the best bits of Turbo anyway, like setups to U M' U2 M U.

It's not a start of a debate. It's only comparison.

 

[mark49152]

It's not a start of a debate. It's only comparison.

It would be fun and interesting to compare Turbo and M2 example solutions. We could take three scrambles and I could do M2 if you'll do Turbo. What do you think? First three scrambles from the BLD race thread?

 

[h2f]

Yes, we can try it. Pure M2 (no advanced tricks) versus Turbo? And we scramble in a orientation we solve?

 

[pglewis]

Now I see that the most recommended method for beginners is M2 for edges, but OP for corners. I wonder, is this much faster than full OP? I have already read about and understood the whole M2/OP, I just need to put it to practice, but I'm so lazy...

I learned M2 edges from the start based on the advice here and I'm glad I did. It's not that much more complicated than OP despite initial appearances. I was comfortable with OP corner execution in a day since I know Y-Perm well and the setups are very intuitive. M2 took me about 3 days to get relatively comfortable with execution; definitely a significant difference relatively but still not much of a time-sink in the big picture. YMMV.

As you say, it's horses for courses, but I do think for people who are learning BLD it makes no sense to practise blind with a method they cannot yet do sighted.

Thumbs up, for sure. I can catch execution errors and determine the cause (mostly mistaken white/yellow swapping, forgetting to flip odd M-slice targets). It's also like flash-cards for assigning letters. My recognition is okay spatially but it still takes me extra time to translate the position to Speffz. Sighted blind "on the fly"-- without memo-- throws letters at me at a faster pace and I obviously get a lot more solves by skipping memo. Most of my focus is on full blind practice because following edge cycles needs a lot of work but doing a sighted session every few days has been a fruitful complement while Speffz is still a thinking matter. Assigning letters for @newtonbase is probably automatic at this point.

 

[pglewis]

Yes, we can try it. Pure M2 (no advanced tricks) versus Turbo? And we scramble in a orientation we solve?

Into The Octagon!

 

[newtonbase]

Let's get ready to rumble!!!

 

[newtonbase]

Assigning letters for @newtonbase is probably automatic at this point

I'm still not fast enough. It's worth practicing on it's own.

 

[h2f]

One more question - corners with OP including Jperm and Yperm?

 

[mark49152]

Yes, we can try it. Pure M2 (no advanced tricks) versus Turbo? And we scramble in a orientation we solve?

I will post solutions that I would use in a real solve, so maybe a few tricks, but fundamentally M2. Same should go for Turbo. It's not so interesting to see "vanilla" solutions, but also not interesting to see unrealistic tricks that turn it into a different method. I'm interested to learn more about how Turbo would be used for real by an experienced Turbo user, too. Maybe others will post better M2 solutions too.

Here we go. Scramble in solving orientation.

1. D2 L2 U2 B F2 U2 F' U2 R2 D2 F2 U R' B D' F' D B2 R2 F2

[L R: U M' U2 M U] // BL FR 9/9
x' [U L U': M2] // LD 7/16
[U' R' U: M2] x // RD 7/23
M2 // UB 1/24
Uw2 M' Uw2 M' // UF DB 4/28
x' [U L' U': M2] x // LU 7/35
[U' L' U: M2] // FL 7/42
x' [U' R U: M2] x // RU 7/49
[R': ((M' U)3 M U)2] // flip RB 18/68

2. U2 L' D2 L' D2 R' D2 F2 U2 L2 U L2 U' F' L' D' L' R D2 U

[U' L' U: M2] // FL 7/7
x' [U L' U': M2] x // LU 7/14
U R2 U' M2 U R' U' M2 U R' U' // DR FR 11/25
M' U2 M U2 // UB UF 4/29
[B': [U R' U', M2]] // BU LB 10/39
[U R' U': M2] // BR 7/46
[L2: U M' U2 M U] // DL UR 7/53
U2 M' U2 M' // DB 4/57
[U' L U: M2] // BL 7/64
[D' L2 D: M2] // parity for OP 7/71

3. R2 U B2 U' L2 F2 D' F2 L2 D L2 F' U2 B' D2 R F'U2 F' D F2

[Uw: [U R' U', M2]] // LB UL 10/10
x' [U L U': M2] x // LD 7/17
[L' R: U' M' U2 M U'] // FR FL 9/26
[Bw: U M' U2 M U] // RU RD 7/33
(U M')3 U M (U M')4 // BU 16/49
M Uw2 M Uw2 // UF DB 4/53
[U R' U': M2] // BR 7/60
U2 M' U2 M' // DB 4/64

 

[h2f]

@mark49152 What about parity? Only preparation to solve it?

 

[h2f]

1. D2 L2 U2 B F2 U2 F' U2 R2 D2 F2 U R' B D' F' D B2 R2 F2

D' R2 U' R U R' U' M' U R U' r' U R2 D //DB-LU 15/15
L' U' R' U' R U M U' R' U r U L //LF-RU 13/28
D R2 Lw U' M' U2 M U' Lw' R2 D'//FD-LB 13/39
L2 R U' r' U' R U M' U' R' U R U R' L2 //RF DL 15/54
R2U U' r' U' R U M' U' R' U R U U' //RD BU 15/69
U2 R2 U R' U' R' U2 r U R U' r' R //flip 12/81
alg.cubing.net

There's few cancelation in last targets and flips. The flip starts with R' but it cancels wit last R and I'm sure I would cancel it (i do the same cancelations now). There's also few U/U' but I'm not sure if I would cancel it - I was using Turbo only few months.

2. U2 L' D2 L' D2 R' D2 F2 U2 L2 U L2 U' F' L' D' L' R D2 U
R' U' R U M U' R' U r //BU-UR 9/9
L D' Rw2 U M U2 M' U Rw2 D //DB BL 11/20
L Rw' U' M' U2 M U' Rw L2 //RB-LD 8/28
M U' M' U2 M U' M' //RU LU 7/35
D2 R Lw2 U' M U2 M' U' Lw2 R' //DR-FR 11/46
D' L' Rw2 U M U2 M' U Rw2 L D' //DF FL 10/56
U' r U R' U' M U R U' R' U //UL UR 11/67

alg.cubing.net

I've added some cancelation (like L L2 = L') which are obvious and I'm sure I would use it.

3. R2 U B2 U' L2 F2 D' F2 L2 D L2 F' U2 B' D2 R F'U2 F' D F2

D R2 L U' R U R' U' M' U R U' r' UL' R2 // DF LB 17/17
D R2 U' R' U' R U M U' R' U r U R2 D2 //UL LD 14/31
L' R M2 U M U2 M' U M2 L R' //FR FL 11/42
D2 L2 M U' M' U2 M U' M' L2 D2//RU RD 11/53
R' U U' r U R' U' M U R U' R' U U' //BU RB 14/67
D L2 M U M' U2 M U M' L2 D' R //BD RB 12/79
alg.cubing.net
Same situation like in solve no1. There are few cancelation. I think experienced cuber would use it. It brings solution down to 75 if it counts.

 

[mark49152]

One more question - corners with OP including Jperm and Yperm?

No corners.

@mark49152 What about parity? Only preparation to solve it?

Not sure it matters for comparison, but I just left two edges swapped and no other pieces displaced.

Edit: Are you sure you scrambled #1 right? Assuming UF buffer I make the first two targets DB LU.

 

[chtiger]

I wonder, is this much faster than full OP?

It should be about 15 seconds faster.


With the official WR 7x7 mean now faster than my best unofficial 4x4 single, it's time to practice 4x4 again. What's the best method for someone who is terrible at finding and pairing up the edges? My current PB was set using r2 for edges. There should be a faster method than that. Any simple tips and tricks that I probably don't know?

 

[NewbieCuber]

Today I've made big progress. Still using the beginner's method but my goal was to average less than 1:30.

Today's times:

Average of 5 1:24.82
Average of 12 1:27.81
New Personal Best 1:02.79

I have yet to get a sub 1 minute solve. But one of the things Youtuber "Spotty" suggested was not to try switching to CFOP until your beginner's method was consistently below 1:30. I can see why. There's a lot to learn just on handling the cube smoothly, not mistaking clockwise vs counter-clockwise algs. Getting faster at the cross, etc.

I've been practicing the 3 F2L moves separately. I think I'll wait until I can consistently (over 25 solves or more) get below 1:30 before I start changing methods. Then the real work starts with memorizing OLL and PLL.

What a blast it's been learning this cube though.

 

[h2f]

No corners.


Not sure it matters for comparison, but I just left two edges swapped and no other pieces displaced.

Edit: Are you sure you scrambled #1 right? Assuming UF buffer I make the first two targets DB LU.

Now corrected. I've taken wrong scramble.