CFCE vs CFOP

[Vexatious]

For those who don't know what CFCE is, it's cross, f2l, Cxll(cmll recommended), ELL


On the wiki, the average move count is 54, compared to CFOP's 55. One move isn't that big of a difference, but CFCE has around 5 less algs. Ima roux solver so CFCE would be better to me, but since most use CFOP, I wanted to state the advantages and disadvantages of both.

CFCE has lower movecount(by 1 only though) and lesser algs(still in the 70's though).

CFOP has higher skip chance-
Even though CFCE has lesser algs, the chance of CLL skip is around the same as the chance of a ELL skip. In CFOP, OLL skips don't happen very much, but PLL skips happen 1/21 times, which is not that rare compared to CFCE having a 1/42 CLL skip.

Ya

 

[cubecraze1]

You've got your statistics completely wrong. The probabilities of a PLL skip is actually 1/72, ELL skip is probably much rarer.

Also, you need to consider how much easier OLL/PLL is to recognise compared to a difficult CLL/ELL case.

 

[Daniel Lin]

(cmll recommended)

you can't use CMLL because some of the algs ruin the M slice

OLL skip chance=1/(2^3*3^3)=1/216
PLL skip chance=1/(4!*4!/4/4/2)=1/72
OLL or PLL skip chance=1-(215/216)(71/72)~1.85%
CLL skip chance=1/(3^3*4!/4)=1/162
ELL skip chance=1/(2^3*4!/2)=1/96
CLL or ELL skip chance=1-(161/162)(95/96)~1.65%

Also, you need to consider how much easier OLL/PLL is to recognise compared to a difficult CLL/ELL case.

I don't think recognition time is that different.

 

[Vexatious]

CMLL disturbs m- slice as Roux users don't match the centers at this stage. CmLL only disturbs the corners and U face edges(I'm positive). Maybe a few algs might. I don't know full cmll yet. ELL is the main topic. ELL isn't as ergonomic as PLL, but recognition can be done by looking at one face only

 

[h2f]

What is CxLL?

 

[Isaac Lai]

What is CxLL?

CLL but the X can be replaced with any restriction (e.g. COLL preserves EO, CMLL preserves everything but the M slice)

 

[bobthegiraffemonkey]

CMLL has an M because it's allowed to affect the M slice, though most common algs only affect LL. So it's CLL ELL, and it's understood in context to be LL on 3x3 and not something like 2x2 CLL.

As it happens, I now do this on 4x4 when I see OLL parity, so I can take care of both parties during ELL in at most one alg.

 

[h2f]

CLL but the X can be replaced with any restriction (e.g. COLL preserves EO, CMLL preserves everything but the M slice)

Thanks.

 

[Daniel Lin]

ELL isn't as ergonomic as PLL, but recognition can be done by looking at one face only

Not all cases. Do you mean by looking at the top face?http://algdb.net/Set/ELL. Try distinguishing between 2flip(opposite) and FB-flip H.
Some CLL and ELL cases can be recognized just from the top, but not all. All OLLs can recognized from the top, but no PLLs can. You can however, recognize PLL from two sides.

 

[PurpleBanana]

All OLLs can recognized from the top

Really?

 

[Daniel Lin]

Really?

Oops. Except for the C shapes. And the awkward shapes. I think that's it.
Edit: a lot of OLLs can't be recognized just from the top. Like all of them lol

 

[Vexatious]

Maybe I should have thought more before speaking. CFCE was made around the same time as CFOP. Wonder why it never became popilar

 

[PurpleBanana]

Edit: a lot of OLLs can't be recognized just from the top. Like all of them lol

Only 5 of the 57 can be recognized just from the top.

 

[sqAree]

Only 5 of the 57 can be recognized just from the top.

I'd say it's 7.
One OCLL case, two dot cases, the two big lightning bolt shapes and the other two with all corners oriented.

 

[PurpleBanana]

I'd say it's 7.
One OCLL case, two dot cases, the two big lightning bolt shapes and the other two with all corners oriented.

Forgot about the lightning bolts.

 

[obelisk477]

I'd say it's 7.
One OCLL case, two dot cases, the two big lightning bolt shapes and the other two with all corners oriented.

If you mean purely the top stickers only, I can't imagine which OCLL you mean. You can't differentiate between T and U, Pi or H, S or AS. You can see the L OCLL, but you cant see which AUF it is without side stickers. I think the same is true of lightning bolts. The only OLLs I can think of that work from only top stickers are adj flip, opp flip, and 4 flip.

 

[sqAree]

If you mean purely the top stickers only, I can't imagine which OCLL you mean. You can't differentiate between T and U, Pi or H, S or AS. You can see the L OCLL, but you cant see which AUF it is without side stickers. I think the same is true of lightning bolts. The only OLLs I can think of that work from only top stickers are adj flip, opp flip, and 4 flip.

If you care for AUFS we shouldn't assume there are 57 cases because then there are quite a few more.

 

[obelisk477]

If you care for AUFS we shouldn't assume there are 57 cases because then there are quite a few more.

I'm not saying each AUF is an OLL, I'm saying you cant *execute* an OLL using only the top stickers except in corners solved cases.

 

[sqAree]

I'm not saying each AUF is an OLL, I'm saying you cant *execute* an OLL using only the top stickers except in corners solved cases.

Well, that's obviously correct, yep. One could argue about what was meant as it's absolutely legit to say an OLL case got recognized when you can tell which of the 57 it is.
Also, as there are 58 OLL cases in total, I'd say we have another one that can be recognized and also executed.

 

[Vexatious]

The last layer is difference. Everyone knows what OLLCP is, but how many algs for OLLEP? Might be useful, might not. Has anyone generated algs for it?