Hey champ, come learn CFCE

[bonnersupport]

Hello, first, this was posted to reddit, so I just copy and pasted here.

Hey guys, I was using CFCE for awhile and made some resources for it. (At the bottom)

INTRO

CFCE is a CFOP variant that just has a different last layer.

Instead of doing OLL into PLL, you would do CLL into ELL.

For CLL, it would be like using COLL but better algs because you don't care about EO.

Then once you do the CLL, you're left with an all oriented OLL. This being OLL 28/57/20, all with CP solved.

Then you would just do the ELL to finish.

This can give the illusion of an OOPS method, where you do one OLL and mess up, but do another OLL and get a skip, every time lol.

The way I propose this method is more of a swag strat opposed to being good overall for speed. It's also like gambling in a way.

The best CLL into the best ELL is better than OLL/PLL. BUT, the worst CLL into the worst ELL is FAR worse than the worst OLL/PLL. You're basically rolling the dice for a 3 cycle every time.

If you're familiar with Jay McNeil's argument against using most of COLL, this also applies here. You are using a harder CP recog method, with sometimes bad algs, for the chance at getting a 3 cycle.

TO BEGIN I think you should know FULL CFOP before you use CFCE. This is because you sometimes just end up with PLL, so you have to know that. It will also be extremely useful to know full OLL and COLL before hand, or else you will be learning CP recog from scratch. (You could just do this, but it will be hard imo).

Here are some arguments against the method.

First, you're immediately giving yourself a harder recog than OLL, especially with sunes(which yes you have to do for full CFCE). CP recog is almost always going to be slower than regular OLL. Even if you get a CP skip you still have to recog it.

Second, you miss out on the fast OLL's. Imagine getting a sune, but the CLL you do ends up giving you a dot. This sucks lol. This is actually why I switched back to CFOP. It doesn't make sense to not do the regular sune. But then you're just mixing the methods, where you should really just pick one.

Third, ELL is honestly just not that good. Yes, you get 3 cycles, that's about it. This is why it's like gambling with your solves. There are good ELL's, but again, when most people can sub-1 any PLL, it doesn't really make a difference.

This method is the Jay McNeil argument, but it's the whole method lol. I wanted to get good with CFCE, and I did, but you are handicapping yourself for the sake of swag. Imagine just adding a second to your LL.

I find this method is a good set to know adjacent to CFOP, especially ELL so you CAN take advantage of the 3 cycles. A lot of the other cases are pretty good too. Predicting ELL is when I stopped using CFCE, so that's about where my resources stop.

Reasons FOR this method.

First, 3 cycles. Literally the only reason to use this method besides taking advantage of the good ELL's. (Again, even if you use these as stated, you have to recog that you got a CP skip, then choose to recog the ELL, then you do the alg. That's a lot of steps to give yourself).

Second, great CLL/ELL cases. I said this earlier, but the combinations using this method are fantastic. It lets you get cases in solves where you would normally throw it away. You ARE using CLL, which is generally a really good set. (Just not worth it overall lmao).

Third, avoid bad OLL's. Imagine this, no more dots. Just do a CLL. Imagine that OLL that you suck at and just really don't like doing, do a CLL. It's almost like an option select. This is a crutch that you shouldn't use, but some CFCE cases do come in handy in tough situations.

Fourth, Great CP recog. This builds an amazing foundation for other methods that revolve around corner permutation. This made learning ZBLL's MUCH easier. You're already using JOLL to predict ELL(probably lol), so you just have to associate that with EP for ZBLL's. My CP recog is basically instant at this point.

Fifth, Swag my guy. Influencing EO into an OCLL, just to do a CLL and break it up, just to then get a 3 cycle is fantastic lmao. Some cases are just fantastic. You could literally get like a 10 move LL, consistently. Also using the illusion of an OOPS method is really fun.

This is honestly just a really fun method. And if you can get over the handicap idea and just get good at the method, you get some really interesting solves.

I am listing my algs, and my CLL EO spreadsheet. There are different algs for the bad cases, but all the good cases are there. (If you find one you don't like then just pick one you like).

The CLL EO sheet is unfortunately like any other, and is built around my algs. If you use or choose a different alg, you will have to adjust the sheet.

TLDR: CFCE is a swag strat method that takes advantage of the lucky cases you can get. Usually not worth it, but when it is it's amazing.

Here ya go, get out there and learn CFCE.

HB ELL

HB CLL EO Spreadsheet

 

[OreKehStrah]

Here’s something to consider:

CFCE is actually better than CFOP for OH solving. F2L is the same, CLL is usually nicer than OLL (bc it’s the best ollcps), and ELL can be done 2Gen MU in 13 moves or less, which is lower than the avg move count for PLL.

 

[bonnersupport]

Here’s something to consider:

CFCE is actually better than CFOP for OH solving. F2L is the same, CLL is usually nicer than OLL (bc it’s the best ollcps), and ELL can be done 2Gen MU in 13 moves or less, which is lower than the avg move count for PLL.

Yeah that’s fair. I wrote this solely with 2H in mind.

I also just CFOP for OH so I can’t do M moves lol.

 

[Fred]

Oh hey, a fellow CFCE user! But I approached it in a completely different manner.

This can give the illusion of an OOPS method, where you do one OLL and mess up, but do another OLL and get a skip, every time lol.

This is fun. What I really like is when I do a PLL alg for CLL and then an OLL alg for ELL.

TO BEGIN I think you should know FULL CFOP before you use CFCE. This is because you sometimes just end up with PLL, so you have to know that. It will also be extremely useful to know full OLL and COLL before hand, or else you will be learning CP recog from scratch. (You could just do this, but it will be hard imo).

That's a good argument for knowing PLL, but I don't see the point of knowing full OLL first. My reason for using CFCE is that I used Roux for a while, and the CMLLs overlap a ton with CLL, so it wasn't very many algs left to learn for two-look last layer. Plus I wanted to know the 3-cycles and pure flips for 3BLD anyway. (I know full PLL and 2-look OLL.)

Third, ELL is honestly just not that good. Yes, you get 3 cycles, that's about it. This is why it's like gambling with your solves. There are good ELL's, but again, when most people can sub-1 any PLL, it doesn't really make a difference.

Slow cubers exist too! I'm not even that slow at sub-20. I can't sub-1 any PLLs and I can barely sub 1.5 a single PLL (the RUS U perm). Jb is close at sub 1.6. Also some of your ELL algs are not very good for two-handed solving. Several of the MU spam ones can be replaced with more TPSable algs, for example the adjacent pure flip: r U R' U' r' U2 R U R U' R2 U2 R. With good ELLs, I don't think CLL/ELL is much behind OLL/PLL on average. The movecount is a bit less, but there are a few more slices, and a lot fewer people are working on optimizing the algs and fingertricks. Though my recognition is kinda slow, but 2-sided PLL recognition is also hard.

Fourth, Great CP recog. This builds an amazing foundation for other methods that revolve around corner permutation. This made learning ZBLL's MUCH easier.

Some people like to do COLLs to build CP recognition for eventual ZBLL. I think you've made a pretty good case for learning CLLs instead. Plus, you get a lot of the good COLLs for free by learning CLL. Another option would be to learn 2x2. Actually, that brings up another advantage for CFCE over CFOP. If you're lazy and don't learn any 2x2 specific algs, CFCE will be a lot faster on 2x2. Another advantage is you don't have to worry about influencing edges to avoid a dot OLL.

All in all, I think CFCE is a fine method, but you'll have to figure out how to select good algs and how to fingertrick them effectively, since there are nowhere near as many resources as for CFOP algs. Most of CLL can be borrowed from Roux resources, but ELL is difficult.

 

[bonnersupport]

Oh hey, a fellow CFCE user! But I approached it in a completely different manner.

This is fun. What I really like is when I do a PLL alg for CLL and then an OLL alg for ELL.

That's a good argument for knowing PLL, but I don't see the point of knowing full OLL first. My reason for using CFCE is that I used Roux for a while, and the CMLLs overlap a ton with CLL, so it wasn't very many algs left to learn for two-look last layer. Plus I wanted to know the 3-cycles and pure flips for 3BLD anyway. (I know full PLL and 2-look OLL.)

Slow cubers exist too! I'm not even that slow at sub-20. I can't sub-1 any PLLs and I can barely sub 1.5 a single PLL (the RUS U perm). Jb is close at sub 1.6. Also some of your ELL algs are not very good for two-handed solving. Several of the MU spam ones can be replaced with more TPSable algs, for example the adjacent pure flip: r U R' U' r' U2 R U R U' R2 U2 R. With good ELLs, I don't think CLL/ELL is much behind OLL/PLL on average. The movecount is a bit less, but there are a few more slices, and a lot fewer people are working on optimizing the algs and fingertricks. Though my recognition is kinda slow, but 2-sided PLL recognition is also hard.

Some people like to do COLLs to build CP recognition for eventual ZBLL. I think you've made a pretty good case for learning CLLs instead. Plus, you get a lot of the good COLLs for free by learning CLL. Another option would be to learn 2x2. Actually, that brings up another advantage for CFCE over CFOP. If you're lazy and don't learn any 2x2 specific algs, CFCE will be a lot faster on 2x2. Another advantage is you don't have to worry about influencing edges to avoid a dot OLL.

All in all, I think CFCE is a fine method, but you'll have to figure out how to select good algs and how to fingertrick them effectively, since there are nowhere near as many resources as for CFOP algs. Most of CLL can be borrowed from Roux resources, but ELL is difficult.

All good points and I literally agree with everything.

When writing this, I was more addressing people who are more likely to already know full CFOP plus COLL, generally putting you between 10-14

I agree about the algs. They can def be updated

While applicable, 2x2 CLL doesn’t always work for 3x3 because it messes up the DF/DB edge

But yup, def cool to see someone else doing CFCE

 

[Twisted101]

All good points and I literally agree with everything.

When writing this, I was more addressing people who are more likely to already know full CFOP plus COLL, generally putting you between 10-14

I agree about the algs. They can def be updated

While applicable, 2x2 CLL doesn’t always work for 3x3 because it messes up the DF/DB edge

But yup, def cool to see someone else doing CFCE

Yoooo, I wish I could say I was another CFCE user but I quit it after about a year of using it . CFCE was very fun though and I figured out a 2-sided ELL system which I learnt but I probably wouldn’t be able to remember it now .

 

[bonnersupport]

Yoooo, I wish I could say I was another CFCE user but I quit it after about a year of using it . CFCE was very fun though and I figured out a 2-sided ELL system which I learnt but I probably wouldn’t be able to remember it now .

Bro I used it for so long it’s basically ingrained in some cases

Yo recog for ELL is literally just 2sided U perm recog! Besides the Pureflips/H/Z perms its 100% that

 

[Twisted101]

Bro I used it for so long it’s basically ingrained in some cases

Yo recog for ELL is literally just 2sided U perm recog! Besides the Pureflips/H/Z perms its 100% that

No I mean like just F and U faces