I've found something with LL algs

[YouCubing]

This is hard to explain, so I'll show it instead of trying to talk about it.
Let's take a T-perm.
R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' R U R' F'
Now let's separate all the Rs, Us and Fs from each other.
R R' R' R2 R' R R'
U U' U' U' U
F F'
Now, let's cancel these moves out. 2 Rs will cancel an R2, 2 R's also will cancel R2s, R2s will cancel each other, and Rs and R's will cancel each other. Same goes for F, U, B, L and D faces.
We're left with:
no Rs
U'
no Fs
All faces will cancel out, except for (sometimes) the U face. I've tried this with some other PLLs and OLLs, and it worked, so is this a general rule of LL algs, or are there some exceptions?
Here's one more example: a Ja-perm.
L' U R' U2 L U' R U L' U R' U2 L U' R
Separate:
L' L L' L
U U2 U' U U U2 U'
R' R R' R
Cancel:
no Ls
U
no Rs

 

[DTCuber]

This is hard to explain, so I'll show it instead of trying to talk about it.
Let's take a T-perm.
R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' R U R' F'
Now let's separate all the Rs, Us and Fs from each other.
R R' R' R2 R' R R'
U U' U' U' U
F F'
Now, let's cancel these moves out. 2 Rs will cancel an R2, 2 R's also will cancel R2s, R2s will cancel each other, and Rs and R's will cancel each other. Same goes for F, U, B, L and D faces.
We're left with:
no Rs
U'
no Fs
All faces will cancel out, except for (sometimes) the U face. I've tried this with some other PLLs and OLLs, and it worked, so is this a general rule of LL algs, or are there some exceptions?
Here's one more example: a Ja-perm.
L' U R' U2 L U' R U L' U R' U2 L U' R
Separate:
L' L L' L
U U2 U' U U U2 U'
R' R R' R
Cancel:
no Ls
U
no Rs

Interesting. I've never thought about that before, but it seems like there would be no exceptions. All LL algorithms should cancel out all moves besides U moves since you are only affecting the pieces in the U-layer.

 

[shadowslice e]

Try creating an alg which preserves the F2L with differing numbers of R, F, L, B and D algs. My intuition tells me it's not possible due to the fact algs are made of commutators and conjugates which will cancel themselves out apart from the moves affecting the bit you want to effect. I refer you to the previous thread in this sub-forum.

EDIT: see above. He says the same thing as me.

 

[Hssandwich]

R U R U R U' R' U' R' U2 R U R U R U' R' U' R'

 

[Cale S]

R2 U2 R' U2 R2 U2 R2 U2 R' U2 R2

 

[shadowslice e]

R U R U R U' R' U' R' U2 R U R U R U' R' U' R'

Hmmm... Interesting. Perhaps the rule should be even numbers of face turns? At least if we completely move all the pieces on a face.

 

[YouCubing]

R U R U R U' R' U' R' U2 R U R U R U' R' U' R'

interesting, off by an R2 U2.
I also found this:
R2 U' B2 U B2 R D' R D R' U R U' R, It's a V-perm.
R2 R R R' R R
B2 B2
D' D
U' U U U'
Cancel:
R
no Bs, Ds, or Us.
weird.

 

[shadowslice e]

Ok, going by this, it may be that the rule only works if you don't move all the pieces on one face as the reinsertion of all the pieces would cancel out when they were removed.

Try to find an alg which preserves centre orientation with mismatching numbers.

 

[StachuK1992]

R' L' F2 B2 L R D' R' L' B2 F2 L R
Have fun explaining this LL alg.

 

[DELToS]

R' L' F2 B2 L R D' R' L' B2 F2 L R
Have fun explaining this LL alg.

Let's see...
R', R, R', R
L', L, L', L
F2, F2
B2, B2
D'
=
No R
No L
No F
No B
D'

But anyway I find this concept he brought in EXTREMELY cool and interesting

Maybe this works on D too? Not sure.

 

[StachuK1992]

here, I made a thing to help you guys not have to do this stuff manually

https://dotnetfiddle.net/zt9mCj

Should be fairly self-explanatory

 

[YouCubing]

here, I made a thing to help you guys not have to do this stuff manually

https://dotnetfiddle.net/zt9mCj

Should be fairly self-explanatory

Thanks a lot!

 

[DGCubes]

Very very cool. I feel like I've considered things like this before, but never really gave it a second thought. I wonder what the reasoning behind this is...

EDIT: JUST UNDERSTOOD SOMETHING! If it's off by like an R, that means the R center probably turned 90 degrees clockwise, yet the pieces were put around it correctly. Theoretically, it could be off by anything this way, right?

 

[YouCubing]

Very very cool. I feel like I've considered things like this before, but never really gave it a second thought. I wonder what the reasoning behind this is...

EDIT: JUST UNDERSTOOD SOMETHING! If it's off by like an R, that means the R center probably turned 90 degrees clockwise, yet the pieces were put around it correctly. Theoretically, it could be off by anything this way, right?

I guess it could. I just tried out the Vperm I showed earlier again, and it looks like the pieces are moved out and back in again on the red face. That would also explain the RU-gen Hperm (R2 U2 R U2 R2 U2 R2 U2 R U2 R2), because I can see it happening in there as well.

 

[Ordway Persyn]

This is actually interesting
I made / discovered this alg: F R U' R' F' L' U L
It has no F, R, U, or L moves...

 

[StachuK1992]

Protip: No one center can twist alone.

 

[CubeWizard23]

Protip: No one center can twist alone.

do a t perm with a dry erase marker on all the centers.

 

[Cale S]

Protip: No one center can twist alone.

Unless you have parity (odd alg length in QTM)

 

[MoyuFTW]

Protip: No one center can twist alone.

Definitely not right. How do you solve parity on a crazy fisher cube then?

So what's the conclusion about this? What happens when you get one of the leftover moves? Does it twist a center?

 

[StachuK1992]

Neat.