[WR] Feliks Zemdegs 3x3 OH single 6.88

[jamessorsona]

was it another LL skip?
was it on cam?

It was a PLL skip. https://twitter.com/Fazrulz/status/597260633311092736

Edit:
My brain took time to process this. GJ!!!!!

 

[Akash Rupela]

What do you suppose we do to the scrambler? Lynch him? Cut off his fingers? He made a mistake; deal with it.

What I Suppose?
Nothing that harsh. Just something that will send a message for scramblers to be more careful. A regulation change would be more ideal.
The Problem in our front
The problem at hand is not this particular case.
It is the frequency of procedural errors made on WR/NR solves itself. I am quite certain that at least equal care is taken for those scrambles, if not more compared to scrambling for people who are considered noobs. This surely implies with slight extrapolation an enormous amount of misscrambles/repeat scrambles overall. Time and time again there have been repeated instances, often scramblers giving a big set of scrambles wrong and the round still not DNFed. While I agree that constructive discussions over this particular topic have increased a lot over the past year, with some delegates implementing scramble checkers and reporting zero issues on that front.
Why it bothers me so much?
I speak of this as a delegate and as a person whose current 3x3 NR single is set on a mis-scramble and was under scrutiny for 5 months. The precedent logic will not work forever. There is also a subjectivity involved in the same. For example a 3x3 scramble of a 6 move OLL and a Y perm or something similar may not be too less moves for cube explorer to optimally solve but there is no line drawn for such incidents. Any line drawn will be subjective and the only reasonable thing is to totally disallow such cases. Cubing is expanding quite fast , if such issues are not resolved with the current state of participants we have, they will only increase as the participants increase and their handling will get more difficult. But of course a competitor can't be punished and thus the entire responsibility does lie with the scrambler . A scrambler has infinite time to perform a sequence of moves and correct it if required. It is indeed reasonable to expect him to do that. A delegate cannot watch every single person and it is not that easy to find reliable supply of scramblers at each competition at all times and thus a uniform set of rules for scramblers would be good. Till now regulations are mostly centered around participants, maybe 5-10 years from now when cubing grows to new levels of participation, it will become obvious to everyone to have regulations for scramblers and judges too. Certain things are being applied yes, for example a signing system for verifying a scramble after doing it, but until the scrambler is held accountable in some way, it will be quite similar to not having any system at all.
Why I feel punishment is reasonable?
Probabilistically speaking, even if someone checks just 2/6 sides(front and back), there is almost 100% certainty that the scramble is correctly performed. Even checking the 8 corners alone is a 99.9999 percent chance. Which is why any justification (like the one here which said he did check it) fires me up. I am not doubting competence of anyone. He may be good, he may be reliable, but even the best of us make mistakes, our only motive should be to accept them and work out ways to avoid them in the future.

No Hate please

 

[mati1242]

I had a feeling that the WR set by Haixin Yang wouldn't last long and here it is.
Feliks with sub 7 OH solve - just unbelievable !
Hope it will count !

 

[PenguinsDontFly]

What!!!!!

 

[Myachii]

I really hope this counts.. This is insane O.o
I'm guessing Faz doesn't want to upload the video to the public until a decision is made one way or the other, but it will be cool to see it if he does upload it

 

[Please Dont Ask]

What the....??
Who in the world who have even thought that 6.88 would the WR
and Btw its high time that feliks broke another WR

 

[Faz]

I really hope this counts.. This is insane O.o
I'm guessing Faz doesn't want to upload the video to the public until a decision is made one way or the other, but it will be cool to see it if he does upload it

It was up so that Brest/others could reconstruct and determine the reason for the misscramble (And report to the WCA board) but I won't upload it until a decision is made either way.

 

[IRNjuggle28]

I really appreciate your response to this, even though I hate that the situation came up. I don't think I'm the only one here who appreciates how honest you are about the solve. It shows what a class act you are, and makes me respect you for more than just being a great solver.

 

[Genius4Jesus]

What the actual what? That time is pretty decent for 2H...

Too good Faz.

 

[CriticalCubing]

Why does Feliks have so bad luck at 3x3?
First the 5.35 DNF solve and now this miscramble.
Really breaks my heart

 

[cashis]

wow.
wow.
What.

 

[~Adam~]

Why does Feliks have so bad luck at 3x3?
First the 5.35 DNF solve and now this miscramble.
Really breaks my heart

If he didn't get the misscramble it's ridiculously unlikely that he would've got such an incredible time. Bad luck you say?

I personally think it should stand as long as it is within the set tolerance but just sayin'.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[CiaranBeahan]

lets just hope that there is no girl(or boy) screaming in the reaction that forces us to replace this with the 7.08 Erik reaction

 

[hubingjushi]

Early at Xi'an Cherry Blossom 2015, there was a competitior got a 1.89 of skweb single which is on tape. Everyone was very happy. Then the delegate asked hin give the resolution and he found he got a wrong scramble. Then he got an another chance with the extra scramble and the 1.89 was canceled.


I was really shocked by this but I think if it was really proved that the scramble was wrong, it should not counts. Though we do not have cleary regulation about these problems; we should keep fair to everyone including normal competitior and WR holder.

 

[SpeedCubeReview]

Hi all
Just to clear up the confusion that has been going around about the scramble of this cube.
Yes I was the scrambler so if you find if to be necessary to chop my fingers off go ahead
Just a few points I would like to make about the conditions.
1. Felix's cube was the first cube for that scramble so I am 99% sure it was correct.
2. If I was to check every single piece of the cube we would still be doing 3x3 round one at the end of the day and I had been informed by a delegate at a previous comp to look at two sides of the cube which I did for all of the cubes I shuffled that day
3. It was said that there were two scramblers which is partially true, I had someone at the table with me when we were calling up the competitors but he soon left to watch the competition leaving me to do all 8 competitors
4. It was said that there should be good scramblers and judges, however getting the best to scramble and judge is not really possible as it was the final so all the best competitors were competing.
Sorry if I have caused any trouble and hope the WR stands

Thank you. No finger chopping required by me.

 

[Username]

1. Felix's cube was the first cube for that scramble so I am 99% sure it was correct

If it's the first cube, you want to check it extra well just to make sure. The cubes after are easier to compare to that one, but if you make one mistake and it isn't easily spotted, then make the same mistake over and over it will most likely not be spotted and everyone gets the incorrect scramble.

2. If I was to check every single piece of the cube we would still be doing 3x3 round one at the end of the day and I had been informed by a delegate at a previous comp to look at two sides of the cube which I did for all of the cubes I shuffled that day

First of all, comps are different. Yes, most of the stuff is executed the same way but it might also vary a bit according to schedule or other things. Maybe the previous comp was in a big hurry and needed to get everything done quickly, forcing the delegate to give this kind of advice.

If you have trouble scrambling all the cubes yourself, or feel like it takes forever, just ask for a 2nd scrambler to make sure you get it done in time. You don't want to be careless and just scramble "good enough" in a hurry. It's better to take a few minutes more in total but make sure every cube is correctly scrambled.

3. It was said that there were two scramblers which is partially true, I had someone at the table with me when we were calling up the competitors but he soon left to watch the competition leaving me to do all 8 competitors

Tell him to come back and help you. I don't see that as a good reason to not help the competition smoothly



Thank you for being honest, no finger chopping required.

 

[Mollerz]

Early at Xi'an Cherry Blossom 2015, there was a competitior got a 1.89 of skweb single which is on tape. Everyone was very happy. Then the delegate asked hin give the resolution and he found he got a wrong scramble. Then he got an another chance with the extra scramble and the 1.89 was canceled.
View attachment 5138

I was really shocked by this but I think if it was really proved that the scramble was wrong, it should not counts. Though we do not have cleary regulation about these problems; we should keep fair to everyone including normal competitior and WR holder.

This was because the 1.89 at your competition did not follow regulations. The solve was completed in under 7 moves. For skewb, the scramble is required to be a minimum of seven moves for an optimal solution. For 3x3 solving, the solution has to be 13 moves or greater for an optimal solution.

This is why Akash Rupela's solve was allowed for example. But this one you linked, and Nathan Soria's one were not.

 

[Phinagin]

What I Suppose?
A scrambler has infinite time to perform a sequence of moves and correct it if required. It is indeed reasonable to expect him to do that.

Except not really... because if scramblers had check everything over 100% and redo all of the scrambles that were messed up, either competitions would require great number of scramblers, or go on for much longer than they currently do. And since you said that we should have competent scramblers, having more is really not a viable option, therefore competitions would have to be longer. And considering some big competitions are already a few days long, competitions would reach lengths so long that they might be able to be held anymore due to the venues, needing space for other events.

What I Suppose?
Certain things are being applied yes, for example a signing system for verifying a scramble after doing it, but until the scrambler is held accountable in some way, it will be quite similar to not having any system at all.

Although this solution would fix the issues of having misscrambles, two other major issues I see presented here.
1. scrambles would take too long as I expressed above
2. people may not want to be scramblers if they were to be punished

After all these competitions are held and run by volunteers such as the scramblers, and if you are not satisfied with the free labour, then paying more competent people to scramble is the only solution. The issue really is a tricky one, but hopefully someone will come up with a solution.

 

[Username]

Except not really... because if scramblers had check everything over 100% and redo all of the scrambles that were messed up, either competitions would require great number of scramblers, or go on for much longer than they currently do.

This is why only x amount of people who have proven to be able to scramble well should get to scramble (unless there is extra time)

And since you said that we should have competent scramblers, having more is really not a viable option,

Why not? It works in Finland

2. people may not want to be scramblers if they were to be punished

This can be compared to solving the cube in the competition. What if everyone would stop competing because they might get +2's or DNF's? We compete with the risk of getting these penalties if the rules aren't followed, scrambling shouldn't be any different from that

After all these competitions are held and run by volunteers such as the scramblers, and if you are not satisfied with the free labour, then paying more competent people to scramble is the only solution. The issue really is a tricky one, but hopefully someone will come up with a solution.

If you aren't satisfied with the system, you probably shouldn't be there at all. Especially if you refuse to help where needed.

 

[StachuK1992]

Guys, this is Rubik's Cubes.
Quit being so serious.