LBL Keyhole

[ZFR]

I started cubing mid January. Since I'm completely new to this, after researching a bit, I thought I'd start with beginners methods: LBL, then keyhole, then corners first, and finally 8355

By last weekend I was consistently getting 1:30 - 1:50 with LBL so I thought I'd start keyhole.

After learning it, my first thought was: this makes so much sense. Why didn't I think of this myself? Instead of 7 moves for the middle layer edges (or 7+7 in cases where you have to get the edge out first and turn it around), I can do it in 3 moves only (or 3+3).

However, instead of reducing my time, at best it just keeps it same. The problem is, that while before I'd just locate the edge on the upper layer and execute the 7 moves, now I have to find the edge on the upper layer, move it, look at the bottom layer to find the missing corner, move it before executing the 3 moves. Time spent looking for the bottom corner and aligning it with the edge takes more time than the 4 extra moves used to take me.

Any suggestions? Should I keep practicing this, or just forget keyhole and move to next method? My only concern is that if I'm not getting any improvement of keyhole over plain LBL, maybe I'm doing something wrong and should concentrate on getting that resolved first.

(using a YJ Sulong cube; I practice about 20 solves per day)

 

[Cube Is Life]

Switch to CFOP or roux. If you want to stay with LBL, try keeping a finger on the missing corner so you don't have to keep relocating it.

 

[Smiles]

I generally consider keyhole as:
1. an improvement of the beginner method, but still a beginner method
2. something that can give you a better idea of edge orientation
3. a standalone beginner method, that does not transition into any fast speedcubing method.

You seem like you can handle the cube well, especially new concepts like keyhole. Maybe that means you'll understand Roux too, and ZZ and CFOP.
Go experiment with these methods, and see which one you like best. CFOP will probably be easier for you to grasp at first, but I guarantee you that if you give them a shot, ZZ and Roux will be really appealing too.

 

[Habs]

I used this method for a while and am starting to use F2L now. I do want to learn full CFOP eventually, my best time with the LBL Keyhole was 20.05 but it was a very lucky solve, my best time that wasn't insanely lucky was 25.03. Since starting F2L obviously my times started out very badly, I was struggling to get under 1 minute, but now I am usually averaging in the 40s seconds. I can still tell I am taking a while to find the pairs and put them into the proper slots but I am getting better, I just have to practice and once I get the F2L step down to a pretty consistent fast time I'll move on to learning OLL and PLL.

 

[Smiles]

I used this method for a while and am starting to use F2L now. I do want to learn full CFOP eventually, my best time with the LBL Keyhole was 20.05 but it was a very lucky solve, my best time that wasn't insanely lucky was 25.03. Since starting F2L obviously my times started out very badly, I was struggling to get under 1 minute, but now I am usually averaging in the 40s seconds. I can still tell I am taking a while to find the pairs and put them into the proper slots but I am getting better, I just have to practice and once I get the F2L step down to a pretty consistent fast time I'll move on to learning OLL and PLL.

nice. do you at least know 2-look OLL and PLL?
you can learn full PLL slowly as you do F2L. an alg every 2 days can't hurt. plus it keeps your solves from being extremely boring if you're learning new things too.

 

[Habs]

nice. do you at least know 2-look OLL and PLL?
you can learn full PLL slowly as you do F2L. an alg every 2 days can't hurt. plus it keeps your solves from being extremely boring if you're learning new things too.

I haven't even started learning OLL or PLL yet. Right now OLL and PLL are done in the opposite order that I do the last layer. I usually get all the edges turned the right way, then get all the corners in the right spot, the get all the corners turned the right way, then finally get all the edges in the right spot. Sorry, I'm fairly new to cubing terms. I definitely do want to learn full CFOP though. I just love solving the cube as fast as I can, but I see the times here and sometimes feel like I'm super slow.

 

[Smiles]

I haven't even started learning OLL or PLL yet. Right now OLL and PLL are done in the opposite order that I do the last layer. I usually get all the edges turned the right way, then get all the corners in the right spot, the get all the corners turned the right way, then finally get all the edges in the right spot. Sorry, I'm fairly new to cubing terms. I definitely do want to learn full CFOP though. I just love solving the cube as fast as I can, but I see the times here and sometimes feel like I'm super slow.

haha no problem, everyone goes at their own pace. my pace was really weird around sub-40 but that's not relevant.
i just assumed you were more acquainted with cubing terms because you're so fast xD oops!

 

[AlphaSheep]

However, instead of reducing my time, at best it just keeps it same.

Any time you move to a more advanced technique, it will require more thinking. That makes any more advanced technique inherently slower than whatever you were using before. No one learns a new technique and sees an immediate improvement. You learn the new technique, then practice it. After a lot of practice, eventually all the extra thinking the new technique requires becomes automatic, and only then do you become faster.

Don't give up. There's no magic trick which will immediately make you faster. Improvement will always be gradual.

 

[SenorJuan]

Just keep practicing the keyhole method, it will gradually get easier. Soon, you will be moving the D-layer automatically, and while inserting the edge, you'll be using look-ahead to find your next edge. Also, learn to insert the edge in more than just the one position. Eg. if you normally have your keyhole in the 'front right' position, try inserting into the 'back right' slot. This can reduce turns and cube rotations. You should be able to get down to sub-40 s times with LBL keyhole.

 

[DGCubes]

I have been using Keyhole for over 2 years now, and I average about 16. I have a feeling I'm one of the fastest Keyhole-ers, just because other people normally switch to F2L before they even get sub-20. I tried switching to F2L recently (it didn't work out too well), but I plan to switch over again soon, as I am getting better with it. I recommend that you keep going with Keyhole for a while, because once you do it for a while it becomes totally natural!

 

[Habs]

haha no problem, everyone goes at their own pace. my pace was really weird around sub-40 but that's not relevant.
i just assumed you were more acquainted with cubing terms because you're so fast xD oops!

Lol tha. s alright. Its bound to happen, I have been timing myself for a few months but I never got familiar with all the terminology. I'll get the hang of it as I go though. Thanks, but I'm not that fast. I avg low to mid 30s right now with keyhole.

 

[ZFR]

Thanks for all the replies people.

Any time you move to a more advanced technique, it will require more thinking. That makes any more advanced technique inherently slower than whatever you were using before. No one learns a new technique and sees an immediate improvement. You learn the new technique, then practice it. After a lot of practice, eventually all the extra thinking the new technique requires becomes automatic, and only then do you become faster.

This was particularly useful. I decided to stop timing myself today and concetrate on getting it right before doing it fast. Spent whole today training then finally timed myself in the evening. First try 1:23 After an hour or so I could consistently get 1:15-1:20. Maybe still not too good, but only last weekend my best result using normal LBL was 1:30 and 24 hours ago I was struggling with keyhole.
It's funny how I now subconsciously "know" where the keyhole corner is without having to keep looking at the bottom layer, but if I consciously try to look for it, it takes me longer to find.

What helped me also is to look not only at the middle edge that is being inserted, but also at the edge that was in its place and got popped up to top. If that edge was a middle edge too, I quickly work on it next.

Also, learn to insert the edge in more than just the one position. Eg. if you normally have your keyhole in the 'front right' position, try inserting into the 'back right' slot. This can reduce turns and cube rotations.

Thanks. This is something I haven't thought about. At the moment I always keep it front right and rotate the cube. Maybe I should consider learning the other positions too.

You seem like you can handle the cube well, especially new concepts like keyhole. Maybe that means you'll understand Roux too, and ZZ and CFOP.

Yup, I plan to try all three as well as Petrus, then decide which I like best and concentrate on it, as per the suggestion in this thread:
https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/...ner-s-Guide-to-Choosing-a-Speedsolving-Method

However, before I do that I'd like to give beginners methods corners first and 8355 a try.

Anyway, I think enough for today. If I close my eyes I see the cube in front of me. I think I'll be seeing the cube in my sleep today.

 

[PenguinsDontFly]

Or Petrus or ZZ or Corners First or Edges First or Sexy Method or PCMS or Heise or ZB or 8355 or Less is More or Nourse or Human Kociemba or TICT.

Roux zz cfop

 

[dan41]

I have been using Keyhole for over 2 years now, and I average about 16. I have a feeling I'm one of the fastest Keyhole-ers, just because other people normally switch to F2L before they even get sub-20. I tried switching to F2L recently (it didn't work out too well), but I plan to switch over again soon, as I am getting better with it. I recommend that you keep going with Keyhole for a while, because once you do it for a while it becomes totally natural!

totally agree!

keyhole is fast when you dont abandon it to do cfop's slots... most don't get to the level you are at, because they are flashed the promess that something is faster and they quit on it.

It's all about lookahead and total turns:

keyhole is ~3.5 turns for 7 pieces, and a ~8 turn for 8th piece. total ~32 turns. I say 3.5 because if you are opportunist, you can avoid setup moves a couple times.

CFOP's slots would be about 4 times ~7 turns. Well, there are very short slots too. Maybe 28 + setup move, so about also 32.


The downside of keyhole is that the lookahead is not very deep and you cannot exploit the brain's ability to recognize and execute complex algos, i.e., you have to do 7 tiny lookaheads and algos instead of 4 deeper ones. When fast cubers with talent for lookahead exec algos, the fewer pauses the better.

The upside, it is more versatile than slots because you can leave centers unaligned from the cross until LL and you can do some CFOP slots if you see them!

---

My keyhole technique:
* switch opportunistically (as you go) between putting an edge or a corner. could be EECECCE+C for example, just any order as I go.
* never get a piece out unless it is by putting another in; wasteful otherwise.
* I prefer to finish with a corner, but I will finish with edge if it can avoid a misplaced 4th corner when putting the 4th edge.
* do some entire CFOP's slots if you see them!


These days, I prefer doing edges first keyhole because I like the D/D' with same ring finger and I almost have a regrip less keyhole now. I even do U and D turns concurrently.

Have keyhole fun!

 

[dan41]

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[Sauce]

I reccomend you check out methods like CFOP, Roux, ZZ, and Petrus. All these methods seem quite apealling to me. CFOP and Roux will be easiest to understand probably, but ZZ and Petrus are also quite nice. CFOP and Petrus are what I use.