[Indian NR] Akash Rupela 6.91 3x3 single

uberCuber said:
(not addressed at a particular person)

Every time people film their solves and plan to upload them for people to see, should they check with the delegate to make sure their scrambles were correct on every single solve? Is that really the only way to ensure that they won't be DNF'd for something that isn't their fault?
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It seems so. So you have to ask everybody not to film you, or if you film yourself, make sure it's private. Share it at least half a year later.
 
Every time a solve gets DNFed a hundred people complain about it being a stupid decision by the WCA. How on earth can you think it was a fair record when it wasn't the right scramble, and therefore the regulations were not followed? Just because something isn't your fault doesn't mean you should be allowed whatever happened...I really can't understand how anyone could think this.

Sure, it's not a perfect process in place, because cubes do get mis-scrambled and situations like this arise, but that doesn't mean it's the wrong decision to wipe those times! Please find a better way to deal with situations like this before you rudely criticise.

If you want to allow this solve, what will you say when a 2x2 is mis-scrambled, leaving a 1 move solution? Not the competitors fault therefore it is allowed.

As for the 'loophole' of giving someone incorrect scrambles on purpose: Firstly, if you allow misscrambles then there's a loophole the other way too...give them hard scrambles on purpose. Secondly, it's called sportsmanship. I hope that everyone in this community wants to compete in a fair manner.

Please stop randomly calling decisions 'bull****' just because it makes you angry in the first second that you react to it. As someone deeply involved in the WCA it hurts to hear it.
 
When the scramble is basically correct I think it has to be counted. There was a Thai NR with a miscramble but that was completely wrong, so it was understandably DNF'd. However this scramble is the same except for one move as the official scramble, so it obviously wasn't planted for a single.

Does this work in reverse? Say there's a four move 2x2 scramble and it's miscrambled for you to be 10 moves, would it get DNF'd?
 
kinch2002 said:
stuff
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As a delegate, do you have a response to my earlier question? I'm sure you wouldn't want to have to deal with checking a bunch of videos during the competition to verify scrambles, right? What would your response be if more than one person started doing that for all of their solves? Would you be allowed to say "no, I'm not going to check 25 filmed solves because I'm busy"? And if you did refuse, what would happen if one of those filmed solves ended up being a misscramble?

I have to ask these things because I especially don't think it would be appreciated at large competitions like some nationals, euros, and worlds where staff is pretty busy, but it's the only solution I can see to prevent this aside from "refuse to have videos of your solves taken/uploaded."

Tim Major said:
When the scramble is basically correct I think it has to be counted. There was a Thai NR with a miscramble but that was completely wrong, so it was understandably DNF'd. However this scramble is the same except for one move as the official scramble, so it obviously wasn't planted for a single.
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Unfortunately, a one-move mistake can sometimes make a ridiculous difference
 
I think you have a case here of what is called moral luck where decisions are based on the result or consequence (whether its a fast solve) rather than the actual injustice. If it's a misscramble, it's only DNF'd if it's fast ie. a NR/WR. It is obvious if its a repeat scramble and he got this time that it should be a DNF, but if he got a 10 second time on this scramble, it is doubtful as to whether or not it would even be reversed, even if found out to be one move off.

I agree, there should be consistency if the spirit of the rule is "fairness". Though fairness in this aspect proves to be not only burdensome and impractical, but pointless as well. Like Tim pointed out, would already bad solves be further retroactively DNF'd because it was proven to be misscrambled?

Note how there are no consequences for either the judge or delegate or competition organizers?

Simple solution to all this instead of reviewing videos would be to just review the scrambles to make sure they match before giving it to the cuber. Maybe if this is that big of a problem, there should be a scramble-checker who has to initial after each scrambler scrambles a cube?

EDIT: Does someone with Brest-like skills and a copy of scrambles from Finals want to review the final round of Nats just to maybe stir the pot if there was in fact a misscramble (as unlikely as it is)?
 
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kinch2002 said:
How on earth can you think it was a fair record when it wasn't the right scramble, and therefore the regulations were not followed?
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Fair? The only people it's not fair to is the other people at the competition. I think it's perfectly fair to people in the rest of the WCA database. It's still a random scramble - maybe not the one that was generated, but a one-move mistake is an honest mistake.

Also, this is a guy with a 10.x average. I think he can get a very high 6 normally. 6.91 is a good time for him, but this isn't a situation like the 3.52 where the scramble became ludicrously easy because of the mistake. I say it's an honest mistake that hurt nobody - let it stand.

Just thought of something else - do you have a video of every solve from the competition? If there was video, would the WCA be willing to analyze it? This may not be the only solve where a scrambling mistake was made. What if the mistake rate was 10%, 20%, 50%? Will all those solves get DNFed? Do competitors have recourse (e.g. a replacement solve) if there was a scrambling mistake, since it is after all not their fault - and if so, how could they possibly get this extra solve during the round, since it's obviously not OK for random competitors to ask for the official scrambles? If a PB being DNFed due to a misscramble is a serious danger competitors have to contend with, how could anyone with a video of their PB *not* want to verify that the scramble was correct?
 
qqwref said:
Fair? The only people it's not fair to is the other people at the competition. I think it's perfectly fair to people in the rest of the WCA database. It's still a random scramble - maybe not the one that was generated, but a one-move mistake is an honest mistake.
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This thought has been kicking around my head reading this thread.

Also, what if the scrambler makes a mistake on the last move in the scramble? As in, the first move of the solve is R instead of R', for example, and the rest is the same as what it 'would' be. This happened to me at a recent competition.
 
I went and looked at the Ando topic and it seems like the conclusion was that the scramble he got was totally different from the actual one, and it looked like he knew the scramble and solve ahead of time. Similar to what probably happened with Shane Rowland ages ago (he got a 13 or 14 on the first solve of an average, and no other solves under 35). So that's a clear but arguably unprovable instance of cheating, whereas this is just a scrambler making an honest mistake.

Now, if Akash had ended up with a totally ridiculous solve and time, something like that Riley Woo video, then yeah, I'd say we ought to DNF the solve... not because a misscramble is against the rules, but because it's unfair to have to compete against a solve on a scramble like that, and I'd expect Akash to reluctantly agree that that was the best course of action. Just like what was done on Prusak's Square-1 WR single ages ago. But really, this wrong scramble isn't that crazy, the time is reasonable, and it will get beaten. Don't punish Akash alone for something that may have happened to many, many solves at that competition.
 
What is very annoying here goes back to my video evidence dilemma. If this misscramble had been caught during the comp, he would get a new try. Now he gets a DNF. So, how are the rules being followed when video evidence is not giving someone a retry and instead giving them a DNF? If you can break off the regs and use judgement to call this a DNF because it's impossible for him to get a retry, why can't you break off the regs and say this this scramble was still random and should therefore stand? I just don't understand why common sense can't play a part in these judgments. He still got a random scramble, and solved it legally.
 
Are scramblers briefed or trained? Does a second pair of eyes check each cube before it's delivered? Is there both a defined process for scrambling, and a defined process for ensuring that this is applied consistently by the scrambling team? Who is the responsible person and what is their direct involvement in that process?

Seems to me that the real problem here is not how the WCA responds to such events, but that mis-scrambles can get to the table in the first place. It really shouldn't be that hard to prevent.
 
mark49152 said:
Are scramblers briefed or trained? Does a second pair of eyes check each cube before it's delivered? Is there both a defined process for scrambling, and a defined process for ensuring that this is applied consistently by the scrambling team? Who is the responsible person and what is their direct involvement in that process?

Seems to me that the real problem here is not how the WCA responds to such events, but that mis-scrambles can get to the table in the first place. It really shouldn't be that hard to prevent.
Click to expand...

Scramblers get a scramble sheet, where each scramble has a picture how it looks - that's how they check it...
Of course they are not trained, they are usually just volunteers from other groups (except for big finals like Worlds or so)
But on each competition I have been on, the delegate/organiser went to ask people he knows and believes them, not some random children who don't know direction of B'... I have also seen my friend going judging and organiser forced him not to judge...
 
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