FredTheCuber
Member
Hi All,
I'm new to both speedcubing and this community. I have been actively cubing for a couple of months and manage to get sub-20 PBs with CFOP (14s something) and ZZ (17s something) (not too great on the average, low 20s). I post this thread to discuss some of my recent thoughts on speedcubing methods.
For me f2l for the CFOP is a very efficient method for speedcubing because the f2l is more intuitive and easy to look ahead. It is less efficient in terms of turns than blockbuilding methods such as ZZ/Roux/Petrus but look ahead for blockbuilding methods are generally difficult to master and I'm not able to always find an efficient solution during every speed solve and have to settle on something rather ugly, which makes it even slower comparing to CFOP f2l.
The advantage of ZZ is obviously the 2-Gen f2l for OH and the possible application of ZBLL with all the U edges oriented. A lot of ZZ variants turn out to be quite successful (ZZ-CT, ZZ-b, ZZ-WV or even the simple ZZ-VH, just to name a few). These variants are designed to reduce the large amount of ZBLL cases and attempt to 1LLL with a manageable algs count and possibly good recognition. I'm particularly interested in the ZZ-b variant because the ZZLL subset, which has the opposite U edges phased, has much less algs to learn and is easier to recognize. This is probably my next step to take after learning COLL. I'm not quite sure how fast is the ZZLL method, so if someone has experienced with it please let me know.
One does not necessarily need to use ZZ to apply ZZLL. During the LS of CFOP f2l, we can do similar phasing to permute the opposite U edges to be opposite by an extended VHLS. I'm not sure if anyone has proposed this method before, and will refer to this as the PEOLS (phasing EOLS) in this thread. Using this method, one can solve the cube with Cross, f2l-1, PEOLS, ZZLL, which will force a PLL skip every time (unless you get an OLL skip, and you will have to deal with one of the PLLs with at least an opposite edge swap).
There are actually not many algs for this sub-step and the recognition is fast. For example, for any VHLS case with block formed above FR slot, we can immediately see the colour of the UF edge. There are three possible cases for the opposite edge of the UF edge: FR, UL and UB. Some times it is not very easy to check the UB edge because it is oriented, but we only need to look at the FR and UL stickers to determine where the opposite edge is. Therefore for each VHLS case, there are three sub cases for the PEOLS, which gives 24 algs in total for the block formed above FR case, and 48 in total if the block 'joinable' case is included.
I have generated all algs for the PEOLS cases with the block formed above FR slot, and am working on the block separate case currently. Some of the algs (if not all of them) are actually subset of the RLS/VLS algs, as the RLS/VLS do some random edge swaps to skip OLL, and when I cannot solve a case by myself I started testing the edge permutation for each OLS case to find an alg. I will publish all the algs when I have finished the block separate case, and hope that some of these algs can be improved. I haven't come up with move count stats and cases probabilities but they are quite similar to VHLS. The most ugly case currently is the dot case with the opposite edges in UF and UL:
y' U2 R' U R2 D r' U r D' R'
which is 10 moves if we ignore rotation. I will put my algs in the thread below and you can have a look at the move counts and whether it is worth doing.
I'm not sure how efficient this is, even comparing to the RLS/VLS PLL route. The algs count is somewhat smaller if we count PEOLL+ZZLL as (24+80). I see the potential to even fix both EO and edge permutation, which might further reduce the cases for the last layer, but I don't really have time to generate the algs and hopefully this idea is interesting enough for someone to pick up from here. Thanks for reading this lengthy thread and I attached a random solve using PEOLS below.
Scramble: F2 D2 U2 R' D2 L' R2 D2 R' F2 R D' B F' D' F2 L2 F D' L2 D2
z2 B' F' U' B2 R L' // XCross
U2 y L U'L2 U L // second pair
RU'R'U RU'R'U RU'R' // Third pair
L U'L'U'LU'L' //Set up PEOLS
y U2 R' U R2 D r' U r D' R' //PEOLS (happens to be the worst case)
(U') L U L F' L' U' L2 D2 L U L' D2 L2 F L' (U) // ZZLL (credit of the ZZLL alg: Simon Swanson & Nick Vu)
66q speedy solves, but I guess my F2L efficiency is pretty bad and it is a dot case which could have been avoided with some partial EO control. A normal CFOP solve would be:
z2 B' F' U' B2 R L' // XCross
d' LU2L'U'LUL' // second pair
F'LFL'D' UL'U'LU'L'U'LD // multislotting (wouldn't get it in a speedsolve anyway)
U2RB'R2FR2BR2F'R // OLL
U' RU'R'U'RURDR'U'RD'R'U2R'U' // R-perm
62q
Anyway, feel free to express your feeling on this and let me know if you are interested to work towards a better version that can do EO and permutation simultaneously!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A list to the algs that I have already found with block above FR slot:
The Notation goes like this:
Edge oriented| Position of the opposite edge of the UF edge | alg (some descriptions)
1) All | FR | (U) RU'R' (simple insert)
2) All | UB | (U2) RU2R'
3) All | UL | (U) RUR'U' RU'R'
4) UF UL | UL | (y U) FRUR'F' (VHLS)
(U) F'UF RU'R' (VLS)
(U y') RF'L'ULFR (VLS)
5) UF UL | UB | (U) F'UFU RU2R
(U y') R'F' U2 F UR (VLS)
6) UF UL | FR | (y U2) L2BLB'L (actually a F2L trick)
7) UF UB | FR | (U) F'L'U'LF (VHLS)
8) UF UB | UL | (U2) F'UF U2 RU'R' (not quite happy with this one)
9) UF UB | UB | R'U' FRF'R' UR (VLS)
(U) RU'R' f RUR'U' f' (VLS, simple insert + 2 look EO)
10) UL UB | FR | (U') F'U'F U2 R'FRF'
11) UL UB | UL | R'F RF' (Sledgehammer)
12) UL UB | UB | (U) F'UFU RU2R'
13) UF | FR | (U2 y) FU' RU'RF (VHLS)
(U2) RU'BU'B'R' (VLS, actually same as above)
14) UF | UL | (U2) FR'F' R2U2R' (U2 rev sledge into case 2)
(U) R2 B'R'BU'R (VLS)
15) UF | UB | (U2) FR'F'R URU'R' (U2 rev sledge into case 1)
(U y) FRU'R'U RU'R'F' (VLS)
16) UL | UB | R'F R2UR'U'F' (VHLS)
17) UL | FR | (U2) RU'R'U' R'FRF' (U2 RU'R'U' into case 11)
18) UL | UL | RU'R' F'U'F RUR' (VLS)
19) UB | FR | R'U' F U R2 UR'F' (VHLS)
(y' U') R D r'Ur D' R' (VLS)
M'U RUR'U' RUr' (VLS)
20) UB | UB| (U) RUR'U2 R'FRF' (could be better)
21) UB | UL | (U2) RU2 R2U' F'UFR (VLS)
(U') F'UF RU'R2 FRF' (VLS)
(y’ U) R2 D' rU'r' D R2 (VLS)
22) NONE | UB | (y) R'F'RU2 M'UM (VHLS, there is also an rUr' version)
23) NONE | FR | R'FR S RUR'U f' (s=F'f, i prefer the s slice. sledge + 2 look EO)
24) NONE | UL | (y' U2) R' U R2 D r' U r D' R' (VLS, i think is the worst case and I couldn't find a better alg)
I'm new to both speedcubing and this community. I have been actively cubing for a couple of months and manage to get sub-20 PBs with CFOP (14s something) and ZZ (17s something) (not too great on the average, low 20s). I post this thread to discuss some of my recent thoughts on speedcubing methods.
For me f2l for the CFOP is a very efficient method for speedcubing because the f2l is more intuitive and easy to look ahead. It is less efficient in terms of turns than blockbuilding methods such as ZZ/Roux/Petrus but look ahead for blockbuilding methods are generally difficult to master and I'm not able to always find an efficient solution during every speed solve and have to settle on something rather ugly, which makes it even slower comparing to CFOP f2l.
The advantage of ZZ is obviously the 2-Gen f2l for OH and the possible application of ZBLL with all the U edges oriented. A lot of ZZ variants turn out to be quite successful (ZZ-CT, ZZ-b, ZZ-WV or even the simple ZZ-VH, just to name a few). These variants are designed to reduce the large amount of ZBLL cases and attempt to 1LLL with a manageable algs count and possibly good recognition. I'm particularly interested in the ZZ-b variant because the ZZLL subset, which has the opposite U edges phased, has much less algs to learn and is easier to recognize. This is probably my next step to take after learning COLL. I'm not quite sure how fast is the ZZLL method, so if someone has experienced with it please let me know.
One does not necessarily need to use ZZ to apply ZZLL. During the LS of CFOP f2l, we can do similar phasing to permute the opposite U edges to be opposite by an extended VHLS. I'm not sure if anyone has proposed this method before, and will refer to this as the PEOLS (phasing EOLS) in this thread. Using this method, one can solve the cube with Cross, f2l-1, PEOLS, ZZLL, which will force a PLL skip every time (unless you get an OLL skip, and you will have to deal with one of the PLLs with at least an opposite edge swap).
There are actually not many algs for this sub-step and the recognition is fast. For example, for any VHLS case with block formed above FR slot, we can immediately see the colour of the UF edge. There are three possible cases for the opposite edge of the UF edge: FR, UL and UB. Some times it is not very easy to check the UB edge because it is oriented, but we only need to look at the FR and UL stickers to determine where the opposite edge is. Therefore for each VHLS case, there are three sub cases for the PEOLS, which gives 24 algs in total for the block formed above FR case, and 48 in total if the block 'joinable' case is included.
I have generated all algs for the PEOLS cases with the block formed above FR slot, and am working on the block separate case currently. Some of the algs (if not all of them) are actually subset of the RLS/VLS algs, as the RLS/VLS do some random edge swaps to skip OLL, and when I cannot solve a case by myself I started testing the edge permutation for each OLS case to find an alg. I will publish all the algs when I have finished the block separate case, and hope that some of these algs can be improved. I haven't come up with move count stats and cases probabilities but they are quite similar to VHLS. The most ugly case currently is the dot case with the opposite edges in UF and UL:
y' U2 R' U R2 D r' U r D' R'
which is 10 moves if we ignore rotation. I will put my algs in the thread below and you can have a look at the move counts and whether it is worth doing.
I'm not sure how efficient this is, even comparing to the RLS/VLS PLL route. The algs count is somewhat smaller if we count PEOLL+ZZLL as (24+80). I see the potential to even fix both EO and edge permutation, which might further reduce the cases for the last layer, but I don't really have time to generate the algs and hopefully this idea is interesting enough for someone to pick up from here. Thanks for reading this lengthy thread and I attached a random solve using PEOLS below.
Scramble: F2 D2 U2 R' D2 L' R2 D2 R' F2 R D' B F' D' F2 L2 F D' L2 D2
z2 B' F' U' B2 R L' // XCross
U2 y L U'L2 U L // second pair
RU'R'U RU'R'U RU'R' // Third pair
L U'L'U'LU'L' //Set up PEOLS
y U2 R' U R2 D r' U r D' R' //PEOLS (happens to be the worst case)
(U') L U L F' L' U' L2 D2 L U L' D2 L2 F L' (U) // ZZLL (credit of the ZZLL alg: Simon Swanson & Nick Vu)
66q speedy solves, but I guess my F2L efficiency is pretty bad and it is a dot case which could have been avoided with some partial EO control. A normal CFOP solve would be:
z2 B' F' U' B2 R L' // XCross
d' LU2L'U'LUL' // second pair
F'LFL'D' UL'U'LU'L'U'LD // multislotting (wouldn't get it in a speedsolve anyway)
U2RB'R2FR2BR2F'R // OLL
U' RU'R'U'RURDR'U'RD'R'U2R'U' // R-perm
62q
Anyway, feel free to express your feeling on this and let me know if you are interested to work towards a better version that can do EO and permutation simultaneously!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A list to the algs that I have already found with block above FR slot:
The Notation goes like this:
Edge oriented| Position of the opposite edge of the UF edge | alg (some descriptions)
1) All | FR | (U) RU'R' (simple insert)
2) All | UB | (U2) RU2R'
3) All | UL | (U) RUR'U' RU'R'
4) UF UL | UL | (y U) FRUR'F' (VHLS)
(U) F'UF RU'R' (VLS)
(U y') RF'L'ULFR (VLS)
5) UF UL | UB | (U) F'UFU RU2R
(U y') R'F' U2 F UR (VLS)
6) UF UL | FR | (y U2) L2BLB'L (actually a F2L trick)
7) UF UB | FR | (U) F'L'U'LF (VHLS)
8) UF UB | UL | (U2) F'UF U2 RU'R' (not quite happy with this one)
9) UF UB | UB | R'U' FRF'R' UR (VLS)
(U) RU'R' f RUR'U' f' (VLS, simple insert + 2 look EO)
10) UL UB | FR | (U') F'U'F U2 R'FRF'
11) UL UB | UL | R'F RF' (Sledgehammer)
12) UL UB | UB | (U) F'UFU RU2R'
13) UF | FR | (U2 y) FU' RU'RF (VHLS)
(U2) RU'BU'B'R' (VLS, actually same as above)
14) UF | UL | (U2) FR'F' R2U2R' (U2 rev sledge into case 2)
(U) R2 B'R'BU'R (VLS)
15) UF | UB | (U2) FR'F'R URU'R' (U2 rev sledge into case 1)
(U y) FRU'R'U RU'R'F' (VLS)
16) UL | UB | R'F R2UR'U'F' (VHLS)
17) UL | FR | (U2) RU'R'U' R'FRF' (U2 RU'R'U' into case 11)
18) UL | UL | RU'R' F'U'F RUR' (VLS)
19) UB | FR | R'U' F U R2 UR'F' (VHLS)
(y' U') R D r'Ur D' R' (VLS)
M'U RUR'U' RUr' (VLS)
20) UB | UB| (U) RUR'U2 R'FRF' (could be better)
21) UB | UL | (U2) RU2 R2U' F'UFR (VLS)
(U') F'UF RU'R2 FRF' (VLS)
(y’ U) R2 D' rU'r' D R2 (VLS)
22) NONE | UB | (y) R'F'RU2 M'UM (VHLS, there is also an rUr' version)
23) NONE | FR | R'FR S RUR'U f' (s=F'f, i prefer the s slice. sledge + 2 look EO)
24) NONE | UL | (y' U2) R' U R2 D r' U r D' R' (VLS, i think is the worst case and I couldn't find a better alg)
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