New 4x4x4 Avg WR Han-Cyun Chen 45.85

[qqwref]

it kind of makes me happy that Taiwan is being successful in cubing.

It's actually really interesting - take a look at the Taiwanese records versus the Chinese records. Taiwan is better than China at 2x2 through 5x5, OH, megaminx, and pyraminx. I think the Taiwanese cubing community is amazingly fast, especially considering how small the coutnry is.

And, again, VERY nice job Han-Cyun!

 

[Stefan]

I think the Taiwanese cubing community is amazingly fast, especially considering how small the coutnry is.

http://www63.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=taiwan+vs+netherlands

 

[blah]

He's from Taiwan man. Not all asians are chinese.

This was ignorant too. Regardless of your political views, Taiwan is a province of China, at least it is officially. So is Hong Kong by the way (SAR). Never knew why they were allowed to participate under a "different" nationality though. Probably the same reason Wales and Scotland and England and Northern Ireland can participate in the World Cup (or Euro or whatever) as different countries? Anyone know why?

Wrong.

Mind telling me why? Searching just gave me 2 different political views, and hence 2 different answers.

 

[qqwref]

I think the Taiwanese cubing community is amazingly fast, especially considering how small the coutnry is.

http://www63.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=taiwan+vs+netherlands

If you look at the populations, Taiwan is only a little bigger than the Netherlands. But remember that the Netherlands got a huge headstart with Ron starting the WCA and all Taiwan hasn't been around for very long, and already they have quite a few fast people. Not that the Netherlands isn't impressive - it really is - but Taiwan seems to be about at that level. (Have you seen their 5x5 times?)

Anyway the country I was REALLY comparing to was China Taiwan and China are so close and share quite a lot racially and culturally, and yet even though China has some 50 times the population, they are very much behind where cubing is concerned.

 

[blah]

People from Taiwan are not the same 'race'. Taiwan has its own language called Taiwanese, that is not intelligible with Mandarin in any way.

How is Taiwanese not intelligible with Mandarin in any way? Isn't it just a variation of Minnan, which is a dialect spoken in Fujian province? Anyone who can understand Minnan can easily understand Taiwanese (well at least 95% of it). And anyone who knows both Mandarin and Minnan can easily see how similar the two languages are. In case anyone's wondering, Minnan is commonly referred to as Hokkien in Southeast Asia.

Taiwan has it's own language called Taiwanese 臺語, which is just a slightly modified version of Minnan 閩南話, but the national language is still Mandarin 國語, and anyone from Taiwan can tell you that these two are very similar.

As for the word 'race', I don't know what that means to you, because it's very subjective. E.g. In the US, 'Asian' is considered a race (at least that's how it is when I filled in college application forms), so you'd be the same race as a Sri Lankan since you're both Asian; where I come from, everyone's Asian, so instead, the 3 main 'races' we have here are Malay, Chinese and Indian.

Where I come from, people from Taiwan and people from China and people from Hong Kong and Chinese immigrants here in Southeast Asia are all considered to be the same 'race' - 华人, 華人 - and the translation for that would be 'Chinese', so I don't see how claiming that Han-Cyun 翰群 is Chinese is ignorant.

Besides, no one has yet answered why people from Hong Kong are allowed to participate under a separate nationality since it's just an SAR of PRC.

 

[AvGalen]

I think the Taiwanese cubing community is amazingly fast, especially considering how small the coutnry is.

http://www63.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=taiwan+vs+netherlands

I would like to add Hungary to that comparison: http://www63.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=taiwan+netherlands+hungary

(I don't really like the way that result is formatted though, when there is 3 countries I would still like to see all details. Replacing these details with "smallest" and "largest" might be useful when there is more data, but now it is just annoying. Even the "more" doesn't give these details anymore)

If only we could add "Caltech" to that comparison

 

[qqwref]

Caltech has been around since 1891 and has a student population (graduate plus undergraduate) of about 2100, so let's say 525 students per year. Thus its "population" is (by a rough estimate) about 62475.

Pretty impressive considering Tyson, Leyan, Shelley, and me have gone here, not to mention all of the lesser-known cubers

 

[AvGalen]

Caltech has been around since 1891 and has a student population (graduate plus undergraduate) of about 2100, so let's say 525 students per year. Thus its "population" is (by a rough estimate) about 62475.

Pretty impressive considering Tyson, Leyan, Shelley, and me have gone here, not to mention all of the lesser-known cubers

I guess one of very few places that has seen a higher concentration/percentage of cubers would be my house/car

 

[shaopaog]

anything about 5x5?

AsR

1:15.53 1:20.06 1:19.50 1:22.30 1:34.56

Avg1:20.62 AsR

 

[chevyLi]

People from Taiwan are not the same 'race'. Taiwan has its own language called Taiwanese, that is not intelligible with Mandarin in any way.

How is Taiwanese not intelligible with Mandarin in any way? Isn't it just a variation of Minnan, which is a dialect spoken in Fujian province? Anyone who can understand Minnan can easily understand Taiwanese (well at least 95% of it). And anyone who knows both Mandarin and Minnan can easily see how similar the two languages are. In case anyone's wondering, Minnan is commonly referred to as Hokkien in Southeast Asia.

Taiwan has it's own language called Taiwanese 臺語, which is just a slightly modified version of Minnan 閩南話, but the national language is still Mandarin 國語, and anyone from Taiwan can tell you that these two are very similar.

As for the word 'race', I don't know what that means to you, because it's very subjective. E.g. In the US, 'Asian' is considered a race (at least that's how it is when I filled in college application forms), so you'd be the same race as a Sri Lankan since you're both Asian; where I come from, everyone's Asian, so instead, the 3 main 'races' we have here are Malay, Chinese and Indian.

Where I come from, people from Taiwan and people from China and people from Hong Kong and Chinese immigrants here in Southeast Asia are all considered to be the same 'race' - 华人, 華人 - and the translation for that would be 'Chinese', so I don't see how claiming that Han-Cyun 翰群 is Chinese is ignorant.

Besides, no one has yet answered why people from Hong Kong are allowed to participate under a separate nationality since it's just an SAR of PRC.

Accually , I don't give a crap whther you are showing of your "knowledge" or just simpy being an ass. My topic is to share the joy that somebody in Taiwan did a great job at cubing , which is the reason why we are all here. It has nothing to do with nationality, race or anything you like to bring up.

You're a Malaysian, I suppose that you never lived here in Taiwan. Taiwan-China issue is a very sensitve topic to most people from these two countries.And it's NOT AT ALL determined by any country or anyone YET.

We, here in Taiwan still have our own goverment, we elect our own president, we have democracy.

Do you suffer the experience of the SARS , when , at that time, China doesn't care at all that Taiwan is unable to enter WHO?

Do you feel heart broken that during 921 earthquake ,when China forbids european life-saving team to fly over their territory in order to come to rescue more people ?

What you care is "officialy" "theoratically" , but what you have said just make you one of so many ignorant asses.

So please enjoy cubing and don't comment on thing you don't really understand.

 

[chevyLi]

I think the Taiwanese cubing community is amazingly fast, especially considering how small the coutnry is.

http://www63.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=taiwan+vs+netherlands

This is a fair comparison.

But I have to remind you that people in Europe has way more chances to practice in competitions than we have here in Taiwan.

 

[fanwuq]

People from Taiwan are not the same 'race'. Taiwan has its own language called Taiwanese, that is not intelligible with Mandarin in any way.

How is Taiwanese not intelligible with Mandarin in any way? Isn't it just a variation of Minnan, which is a dialect spoken in Fujian province? Anyone who can understand Minnan can easily understand Taiwanese (well at least 95% of it). And anyone who knows both Mandarin and Minnan can easily see how similar the two languages are. In case anyone's wondering, Minnan is commonly referred to as Hokkien in Southeast Asia.

Taiwan has it's own language called Taiwanese 臺語, which is just a slightly modified version of Minnan 閩南話, but the national language is still Mandarin 國語, and anyone from Taiwan can tell you that these two are very similar.

As for the word 'race', I don't know what that means to you, because it's very subjective. E.g. In the US, 'Asian' is considered a race (at least that's how it is when I filled in college application forms), so you'd be the same race as a Sri Lankan since you're both Asian; where I come from, everyone's Asian, so instead, the 3 main 'races' we have here are Malay, Chinese and Indian.

Where I come from, people from Taiwan and people from China and people from Hong Kong and Chinese immigrants here in Southeast Asia are all considered to be the same 'race' - 华人, 華人 - and the translation for that would be 'Chinese', so I don't see how claiming that Han-Cyun 翰群 is Chinese is ignorant.

Besides, no one has yet answered why people from Hong Kong are allowed to participate under a separate nationality since it's just an SAR of PRC.

Accually , I don't give a crap whther you are showing of your "knowledge" or just simpy being an ass. My topic is to share the joy that somebody in Taiwan did a great job at cubing , which is the reason why we are all here. It has nothing to do with nationality, race or anything you like to bring up.

You're a Malaysian, I suppose that you never lived here in Taiwan. Taiwan-China issue is a very sensitve topic to most people from these two countries.And it's NOT AT ALL determined by any country or anyone YET.

We, here in Taiwan still have our own goverment, we elect our own president, we have democracy.

Do you suffer the experience of the SARS , when , at that time, China doesn't care at all that Taiwan is unable to enter WHO?

Do you feel heart broken that during 921 earthquake ,when China forbids european life-saving team to fly over their territory in order to come to rescue more people ?

What you care is "officialy" "theoratically" , but what you have said just make you one of so many ignorant asses.

So please enjoy cubing and don't comment on thing you don't really understand.

Why are you discussing politics when you said that it is a sensitive issue? Blah did not bring it up or care about it. He was simply stating the similarities in languages and ethnicity.
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoklo_people

Hoklo (endonym Hok-ló, Hō-ló, or Ho̍h-ló) commonly refers to those Taiwanese people who claim Han Chinese ancestry from the southern part of Fujian province of China. Large populations of similar background can also be found in Malaysia, Guangdong, Hong Kong, Philippines, Singapore, Burma, Thailand, and Indonesia where they are usually referred to as Hokkien, meaning Fujian in Min Nan language.

By this definition, you two are the same race, Han. Just because the governments are different doesn't mean the people are. It like saying you change your race every time you move to a different country and use a different language.
How is Blah not right about the languages having a lot in common? Even Korean and Japanese have a lot in common with Chinese.
Blah, interesting point. Could I compete under Maryland, rather than China?
Chevy, are you going to attack everyone who is Chinese ethnicity and not Taiwanese? Do you hate my grandfather just because he was a surgeon in the Chinese Communist Army? I think he would have enjoyed saving lives regardless of the form of the government. Politics is silly. You can't say Clarence Thomas is not black because he is a Republican.
Your insults to Blah were uncalled for. People can be asses, but it has nothing to do with race or politics. I know pro-Taiwan independence people who are very cool, and some that are Hitler-like uber-nationalist and very cruel. You can't overgeneralize people.
I feel kinda bad for lead a topic about the great cuber Han-Cyun off-topic, but Chevy, your insults really weren't appropriate. Blah may have different opinions, but he is not expressing them in a mean way.
Edit:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formosan_languages
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwanese_aborigines
But if you are part of this group, then you are in fact, not the same race and the language really is different. But by your picture (also they are only 2% of the population in rural areas), I assume you are not a true aborigine.
Minnan is a dialect of Chinese, not an indigenous language.

 

[Johannes91]

Minnan is a dialect of Chinese, not an indigenous language.

According to Wikipedia, it's not so clear.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnan

As with other varieties of Chinese, there is a political dispute as to whether the Southern Min language should be called a language or a dialect. (See Identification of the varieties of Chinese for greater detail.)

 

[fanwuq]

Minnan is a dialect of Chinese, not an indigenous language.

According to Wikipedia, it's not so clear.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnan

As with other varieties of Chinese, there is a political dispute as to whether the Southern Min language should be called a language or a dialect. (See Identification of the varieties of Chinese for greater detail.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identification_of_the_varieties_of_Chinese

The Chinese word for these varieties, 方言 (pinyin fāng yán, literally "place speech"), is commonly translated as dialect. The words have subtly different meanings, however: 方言, as suggested by its characters, focuses on region rather than mutual intelligibility. For example, a native from Beijing would use it to describe both the dialects of Tianjin (where the locals speak with essentially a different accent) and of Guangzhou (where the locals speak Cantonese, which a Mandarin speaker would find incomprehensible without study).
There is no Chinese word that is precisely equivalent to the word dialect, and, similarly, no English word that is precisely equivalent to 方言. As such, the misunderstanding persists, with Chinese speakers of English using dialect the way they would use 方言.

 

[EmersonHerrmann]

Nice That was sick!

P.S. - Please stop posting unrelated stuff like the four people above me...it's annoying >.<

 

[blah]

Thanks fanwuq.

@chevyLi: I apologize if my intentions were unclear, but I think fanwuq already did a very good job in clarifying them - I had no intention of showing off my knowledge, nor of expressing my political views. I was merely 1. justifying my usage of the word 'race', which caused a little misunderstanding earlier on, and 2. explaining how Taiwanese is in fact intelligible with Mandarin. If it helps, I'm actually neutral towards the whole Taiwan-China issue. In my opinion, there are other more worrying issues concerning our race as a whole that are more worthy of my attention. 馬來西亞、印尼華僑教育、文化等慘遭政府的排華政策威脅，海峽兩岸的你們，相煎何太急呢？

 

[chevyLi]

He's from Taiwan man. Not all asians are chinese.

This was ignorant too. Regardless of your political views, Taiwan is a province of China, at least it is officially. So is Hong Kong by the way (SAR). Never knew why they were allowed to participate under a "different" nationality though. Probably the same reason Wales and Scotland and England and Northern Ireland can participate in the World Cup (or Euro or whatever) as different countries? Anyone know why?

I quoted the last post of you, but i mainly concenrend about this post. Taiwan is or is not a "PROVINCE OF CHINA" or with"SAME NATIONALITY" is not really any concern of people from other countries. I don't care about the language issue. But if your statement above seems fair to you. WELL IT IS NOT.

Blah you say that "Chinese (race) people are always discriminated in Malaysia. so you have to be united, well I feel bad for you , but in Taiwan, the situation is very different, so please don't comment the situation here with your experience in your won country.

 

[PCwizCube]

NOTE: When I say indigenous I mean the Chinese people that came to Taiwan about 500 years ago, near the end of the Qin Dynasty in China (I might be using the word incorrectly though....).

To fanwuq and blah:

I know Taiwan, and chevyLi, like many other Taiwanese (mostly indigenous), do not like to be referred to as a Chinese, mostly because they do not like the Chinese government. I do not believe that most Taiwanese hate the Chinese citizens.

I don't know about chevyLi, but most Taiwan residents consist of the people who came from China to Taiwan about 500 years ago, near the end of the Qin Dynasty. As fanwuq pointed out, those are really Chinese descendants, but most indigenous Taiwan residents consider themselves as Taiwanese. It's similar (not exactly the same) to the U.S. The Native Americans are the true Americans, and current U.S. residents know that, but to make it simple, they call themselves Americans.

My point is, indigenous Taiwanese people don't like to be called Chinese, even though they technically are. The main reason for this is because of some of the actions the Chinese government has done to Taiwan. So if you say an indigenous Taiwanese person is Chinese, they won't like it, and they believe that Taiwan is a different country and not a province of China. That's what they believe and I believe it too (my mom is indigenous Taiwanese and she strongly dislikes things the Chinese government has done to Taiwan). But other countries outside of Taiwan don't know much about it and as chevyLi said, don't really care about it that much.

So all you people that are outside of Taiwan can argue all you want, but most indigenous Taiwanese people do not consider themselves as Chinese, even though other people might have different views. I think that is the main reason chevyLi was very angry, because he does not like to be called Chinese.