How many algorithms for 4x4x4 and 5x5x5?

[JustinMSmith]

Hi everyone!

I've been cubing for quite some time now and I think it is time to move on to some of the bigger cubes around, like the Revenge and the Professor cube.

I have been reading a bit about them and came to the conclusion that any cube bigger than the 3x3x3 has some annoyances that are called "parity errors".

How many algorithms will I need to learn to solve the Revenge and the Professor (I'm talking about the basic reduction method here, no advanced speedcubing methods as I will not speedsolve them yet), including all parity cases that could come with the reduction method? (cause I read some parities do not pop up for the reduction method, but they do pop up using other methods)

Thanks in advance!

 

[cuberkid10]

I know 4 algs for 5x5 (3 are parity, 1 is a 3 move thing for centers)
I know 3 algs for 4x4 (2 are the OLL and PLL Parity and one is a alg for the edges)

 

[blakedacuber]

just two is is the minimum you need to learnthey are awkward at first to learn but spend 10 minutes learning and it'll feel natural

 

[JustinMSmith]

I know 4 algs for 5x5 (3 are parity, 1 is a 3 move thing for centers)
I know 3 algs for 4x4 (2 are the OLL and PLL Parity and one is a alg for the edges)

Oh thanks, that's great!

Yeah, talking about the centers, I've been watching (just watching, not having learned anything yet as I don't have my big cubes yet) a video on the 5x5x5 and I saw different cases with algorithms for each one for the last two centers. (like that 'corner' - corner of that center - switch etc.)

Does one need to learn all the cases or can you solve your 5x5x5 with the single center algorithm that you know?

just two is is the minimum you need to learnthey are awkward at first to learn but spend 10 minutes learning and it'll feel natural

Thanks!

 

[irontwig]

Zero is the minimum ***.

 

[RCTACameron]

It's mostly intuitive. For 4x4, you only need two parity algoritms:

OLL parity (long): (Rr)2 B2 U2 (Ll) U2 (Rr') U2 (Rr) U2 F2 R F2 (Ll)' B2 (Rr)2

PLL parity: r2 U2 r2 (Uu)2 r2 u2

For 5x5, you also only need two.

Orientation parity (same as for 4x4): (Rr)2 B2 U2 (Ll) U2 (Rr') U2 (Rr) U2 F2 R F2 (Ll)' B2 L2

Permutation parity: (Ll)' U2 (Ll)' U2 F2 (Ll)' F2 (Rr) U2 (Rr)' U2 (Ll)2

The intuitive part is probably harder to learn that the algorithms, though. I hope this helps.

 

[JustinMSmith]

Thanks for the replies.

Yeah but intuitive solving for the centers isn't too hard. I gave the 5x5x5 a try in the Gabbasoft simulator last night, and I got to the last two centers (and that's where an algorithm comes in). It's just temporarily breaking and then restoring things.

 

[Shortey]

You don't need to know any algs really.

 

[AvGalen]

4x4x4: 1 OLL and 1 PLL parity (found both myself after learning some standard ones earlier)
5x5x5: 1 edge-pairing parity (learned it after finding a bad one by myself)

for centers I use pure intuition, but I think learning the multi-layer (or slice) versions of Sune and Niklas would be very useful

It's mostly intuitive. For 4x4, you only need two parity algoritms:

OLL parity (long): (Rr)2 B2 U2 (Ll) U2 (Rr') U2 (Rr) U2 F2 R F2 (Ll)' B2 (Rr)2

PLL parity: r2 U2 r2 (Uu)2 r2 u2

For 5x5, you also only need two.

Orientation parity (same as for 4x4): (Rr)2 B2 U2 (Ll) U2 (Rr') U2 (Rr) U2 F2 R F2 (Ll)' B2 L2

Permutation parity: (Ll)' U2 (Ll)' U2 F2 (Ll)' F2 (Rr) U2 (Rr)' U2 (Ll)2

The intuitive part is probably harder to learn that the algorithms, though. I hope this helps.

I don't need the Orientation parity (same as for 4x4): (Rr)2 B2 U2 (Ll) U2 (Rr') U2 (Rr) U2 F2 R F2 (Ll)' B2 L2 for 5x5x5 and when I checked it to see what it did I couldn't get it to work

 

[Owen]

4x4: 2 parity algs, and the last two edges alg.
5x5: 1 parity alg, the same as in 4x4, and the same edges pairing alg from 4x4.

 

[maggot]

AvGalen, using OLL parity on 1 center edge flip on edge group or 2 degde flip on same edge group, which ever way you look at it.

With 444 you only DON'T really need the algs, you can just rescramble and hope for the best, but OLL and PLL parity are quite useful in solving any scramble.

For 555 you also need one degde flip alg, the alg was posted in previous posts. Or, you can break the pair to make semi pair and refix you broken edge groups. That's essentially what you are doing, but the alg makes it faster. There are 6? More cases for the last 2 edge other than OLL parity case and degde flip, and they are very easy. These case also help on bigger cube edeges to save much time when you figure out how to apply to groups and slices.

Last 2 centers is not an algorithm, its a commutator. You cannot perform the same algorithm to any orientation, and you have different slices to move certain piece, just fyi.

 

[AvGalen]

AvGalen, using OLL parity on 1 center edge flip on edge group or 2 degde flip on same edge group, which ever way you look at it.

With 444 you only DON'T really need the algs, you can just rescramble and hope for the best, but OLL and PLL parity are quite useful in solving any scramble.

For 555 you also need one degde flip alg, the alg was posted in previous posts. Or, you can break the pair to make semi pair and refix you broken edge groups. That's essentially what you are doing, but the alg makes it faster. There are 6? More cases for the last 2 edge other than OLL parity case and degde flip, and they are very easy. These case also help on bigger cube edeges to save much time when you figure out how to apply to groups and slices.

Last 2 centers is not an algorithm, its a commutator. You cannot perform the same algorithm to any orientation, and you have different slices to move certain piece, just fyi.

Sorry maggot, but you don't have to tell me anything about "edge-pairing" algs. It is really simple: Either you end up with a 3-cycle (no-parity) or you end up with a 2-swap (parity). 3-Cycles are intuitive and a 2-swap "requires" an alg. If you need more algs for parity cases you are not using my edge-pairing method

There are intuitive algs for OLL-parity that don't destroy too much (rU2)*5 (with r being a slice turn only). And yes, OLL-parity is basically the same as 5x5x5 edge-pairing parity

 

[ElectricDoodie]

I like this thread, as I'm in the same boat.

The first time I solved a 4x4x4, I don't know how, but there were no parities. So, I just used 3x3x3 algs on the OLL and PLL, and was able to solve it.

Now, for the past couple of weeks, I always get parities.... 4 of the cubies are either flipped over or on the wrong side. I just scramble it back up, and try to redo it, and hope that there are no parities the next time I get to the LL...:fp

So, now I sit with the 4x4x4x like this:
-U is Yellow.
-B is Orange, and completed.
-L is Blue. There is a Red/Yellow that shouldn't be there. Correctly oriented.
-F is Red. There is a Green/Yellow that shouldn't be there. Incorrectly oriented.
-R is Green. There is a Blue/Yellow that shouldn't be there. Correctly oriented. There is also a Green/Yellow that should be there, but it is incorrectly oriented.

Hopefully, looking through some of these algs, I can fix something, or see a solution. For now, I scramble it back up, and cross my fingers...:fp

 

[AvGalen]

I like this thread, as I'm in the same boat.

The first time I solved a 4x4x4, I don't know how, but there were no parities. So, I just used 3x3x3 algs on the OLL and PLL, and was able to solve it.

Now, for the past couple of weeks, I always get parities.... 4 of the cubies are either flipped over or on the wrong side. I just scramble it back up, and try to redo it, and hope that there are no parities the next time I get to the LL...:fp

So, now I sit with the 4x4x4x like this:
-U is Yellow.
-B is Orange, and completed.
-L is Blue. There is a Red/Yellow that shouldn't be there. Correctly oriented.
-F is Red. There is a Green/Yellow that shouldn't be there. Incorrectly oriented.
-R is Green. There is a Blue/Yellow that shouldn't be there. Correctly oriented. There is also a Green/Yellow that should be there, but it is incorrectly oriented.

Hopefully, looking through some of these algs, I can fix something, or see a solution. For now, I scramble it back up, and cross my fingers...:fp

Are you solving it layer by layer?
Can I recommend you read http://speedcubing.com/chris/4-solution.html first and then http://speedcubing.com/chris/4speedsolve.html ?

 

[ElectricDoodie]

I like this thread, as I'm in the same boat.

The first time I solved a 4x4x4, I don't know how, but there were no parities. So, I just used 3x3x3 algs on the OLL and PLL, and was able to solve it.

Now, for the past couple of weeks, I always get parities.... 4 of the cubies are either flipped over or on the wrong side. I just scramble it back up, and try to redo it, and hope that there are no parities the next time I get to the LL...:fp

So, now I sit with the 4x4x4x like this:
-U is Yellow.
-B is Orange, and completed.
-L is Blue. There is a Red/Yellow that shouldn't be there. Correctly oriented.
-F is Red. There is a Green/Yellow that shouldn't be there. Incorrectly oriented.
-R is Green. There is a Blue/Yellow that shouldn't be there. Correctly oriented. There is also a Green/Yellow that should be there, but it is incorrectly oriented.

Hopefully, looking through some of these algs, I can fix something, or see a solution. For now, I scramble it back up, and cross my fingers...:fp

Are you solving it layer by layer?
Can I recommend you read http://speedcubing.com/chris/4-solution.html first and then http://speedcubing.com/chris/4speedsolve.html ?

Thank you for that.

I first solve the centers, and then start layer by layer.

 

[AvGalen]

I like this thread, as I'm in the same boat.

The first time I solved a 4x4x4, I don't know how, but there were no parities. So, I just used 3x3x3 algs on the OLL and PLL, and was able to solve it.

Now, for the past couple of weeks, I always get parities.... 4 of the cubies are either flipped over or on the wrong side. I just scramble it back up, and try to redo it, and hope that there are no parities the next time I get to the LL...:fp

So, now I sit with the 4x4x4x like this:
-U is Yellow.
-B is Orange, and completed.
-L is Blue. There is a Red/Yellow that shouldn't be there. Correctly oriented.
-F is Red. There is a Green/Yellow that shouldn't be there. Incorrectly oriented.
-R is Green. There is a Blue/Yellow that shouldn't be there. Correctly oriented. There is also a Green/Yellow that should be there, but it is incorrectly oriented.

Hopefully, looking through some of these algs, I can fix something, or see a solution. For now, I scramble it back up, and cross my fingers...:fp

Are you solving it layer by layer?
Can I recommend you read http://speedcubing.com/chris/4-solution.html first and then http://speedcubing.com/chris/4speedsolve.html ?

Thank you for that.

I first solve the centers, and then start layer by layer.

The "normal" order is:
- Centers (random color, oppossite color, random color, NON-opposite color, last 2)
- Edge-pairing
- First 2 Layers
(OLL Parity)
- OLL
(PLL Parity)
- PLL

 

[blakedacuber]

i never learned any algs for centers i just created my own

 

[JustinMSmith]

Right, thanks for all the answers.

I decided to immediately bite the bullet today and searched for the most important algorithms. I now know 3 algorithms for the 4x4x4 (an algorithm if you have to make 2 dedges but there are nomore unmatched pairs to trade out with and the two algorithms that solve the OLL and PLL parities), and 4 algorithms for the 5x5x5 (two algorithms for two of the two final center cases, 1 algorithm to flip an edge and 1 algorithm if there are nomore unmatched pairs to trade out with)

Let's hope I get the cubes fast, so I can put the algorithms in my muscle memory instead of my brains, cause my brains tend to forget algorithms faster than my muscle memory. I'll do a couple of 4x4x4 and 5x5x5 solves a day in Gabbasoft so I don't forget them, cause these are long algorithms and a pain to learn.