[Official] [3x3BLD] Marcin Zalewski 23.91 & 28.88 and Grzegorz Jałocha 30.35

[kcl]

What Noah said. At UIUC I was forced to go last for 2x2 and everyone was getting really fast times (slowish people too) and then when it was finally my turn I was so nervous to solve resulting in a massive fail.

I was just before you and it happened to me also haha.

 

[XTowncuber]

I don't like this reasoning. Cheating should be banned even if it doesn't affect standings.

I'm not saying that competitors should be allowed to easily see the scrambles they are about to get. I'm only saying that it would be silly to consider disqualifying this with so little proof, especially since it doesn't affect standings.

 

[amostay2004]

Knowing that a scramble is going to be easy is often a double edged sword. It's not as simple as just rushing memo. If rushing memo gets you a faster solve, why wouldn't you do it on every solve? If rushing makes you less accurate, why would you do it on an easy scramble?

When I see someone get a fast time for them before I do my solves, I get more nervous and more likely to mess up. That's why I usually go first

Agreed on the double edged sword, but in this situation it's only logical to take the risk and either DNF or get a super fast solve. He already has a fast first solve and probably knew he already won the event, so why not rush the third one and try to get WR, even if it's super rush? Why would you, especially if you knew that it was an easy scramble, memo at your normal pace on a solve that you have nothing to lose, and WR to win?

 

[Kit Clement]

He also took at least 54 seconds to begin his solve. The covered cube is first seen at 2:30, and the solve is started at 3:24. There's this regulation:

A3b1) When the judge believes the competitor is ready, he asks "READY?". The competitor must be ready to start the attempt within one minute of being called. Penalty: disqualification of the attempt (DNF), at the discretion of the judge.

Sadly, this is a regulation for speedsolving, and I'm not sure if blind regulations will supersede this one. Either way, it's pretty clear that he watched another competitor before beginning his own solve and possibly took information out of that. I don't think that the regulations would intend to supersede this time limit for blind events, this is what A3b1 is trying to prevent.

It's not clear that he took a minute, and as mentioned, this solve doesn't have any real impact on records/standings, so there's no need to investigate too hard. Just thought I'd bring that up.

 

[tseitsei]

OK, I just decided I will never ever post any of my own solves on this forum... Because it seems that no matter what you do, you get accused of cheating somehow anyway .

It doesn't even matter if he knew that it was an easy scramble beforehand, because as Noah (and some others) said: It's really a double edged sword, especially in BLD.

Plus it's quite impossible to prevent that from happening in some cases. For example if someone gets a NR people will obviously react to it and cheer and stuff. -> Other competitors hear this and know that someone got a good time -> probably an easy scramble.

 

[porkynator]

I agree with Roman.
(Notice he never talked about disqualifying Marcin's solve in particular, he always spoke in general terms.)
More than once I had to force myself not to look at some other competitor's cube during his memo. I could have easily done some of the memo on his cube before even getting mine.

EDIT: Crazy solve Marcin!

 

[Sajwo]

Guys, don't be silly. None of you weren't there. You can't even say from the video if Marcin was looking at Grzegorz during his solve. But even if he was, I do not see anything wrong with this - they are friends and Marcin was propably simply curious about Grzegorz's result. We all do that. Try it yourself to sit 3 meters away from a world class blindfolder which is memorizing his cube almost under the table. You won't be able to see anything except his shaking hands.

 

[Iggy]

So close!

 

[sneze2r]

Isn't it unacceptably to let competitors see how others solve the cube from actual scramble? It can allow them to see scrambled cube before their solve, obviously.

Maybe someone in Poland would kill me for writing that, but it is common for one good blinder at this comp...(not me)

Knowing that a scramble is going to be easy is often a double edged sword.

But i would say it would give him an advantage. What then? Who is right?

That's why it is forbidden to look at other solves (if someone hasn't done yet solve on this scramble ofc.)

 

[MatejMuzatko]

Exactly, you would see nothing but shaking hands...
Theorethically there could be an advantage, but I don't think they even have the same solving orientation, so what...

 

[cubizh]

He also took at least 54 seconds to begin his solve. The covered cube is first seen at 2:30, and the solve is started at 3:24. There's this regulation:

A3b1) When the judge believes the competitor is ready, he asks "READY?". The competitor must be ready to start the attempt within one minute of being called. Penalty: disqualification of the attempt (DNF), at the discretion of the judge.

Sadly, this is a regulation for speedsolving, and I'm not sure if blind regulations will supersede this one.

To my understanding of the regulations, A3b1) also applies to blind, provided by the following:

B1) Standard speed solving procedures is followed, as described in Article A (Speed Solving). Additional regulations that supersede the corresponding procedures in Article A are described below.

Of this section's articles (the blindfolded section), no regulations seem to supersede that specific one.

OK, I just decided I will never ever post any of my own solves on this forum... Because it seems that no matter what you do, you get accused of cheating somehow anyway .

I can understand, but I don't think that's the right attitude to have. No one is accusing Marcin of being the last to solve and deliberately cheating to gain an advantage. I have my doubts any advantage can be had in the first place in this situation but that's secondary. It's not the competitors fault to be placed where he was placed. If the organization team and particularly the delegate, thought it was ok, it should be accepted. Competition videos will always be important to the improvement of future competitions and the way they are held. Sometimes you don't see certain things in the heat of the moment and it's important that people see and point out things that could be improved. I think this is (and has been) vital to the adjustment and improvement of the regulations and speedcubing's credibility as a competitive worldwide sport. Your solving videos and everyone else's will ultimately contribute to this. I don't believe everyone is always pointing fingers at potential cheating.
People should just make sure they follow the regulations and alert the delegate if they see irregularities.

 

[ZalEw]

Get off me

 

[Goosly]

To my understanding of the regulations, A3b1) also applies to blind, provided by the following: (...)
Of this section's articles (the blindfolded section), no regulations seem to supersede that specific one.

But in BLD, the judge doesn't ask "READY?" (A3b1), since there is no inspection and the competitor lifts the cover, so I don't think A3b1 can be applied. A few times I have asked for a little break when my cube returned to fast from the scramble table (in BLD rounds) and I never encountered problems with that. I'm not the slowest guy at the competitions I attended, so it didn't mess up the time schedule of course. I wouldn't do it if it would slow down the competition.

Edit: Regulation B1a removes A3b1 from BLD events.
A3 is about inspection:
A3) Inspection:
(...)
A3b1) When the judge believes the competitor is ready, he asks "READY?". The competitor must be ready to start the attempt within one minute of being called. Penalty: disqualification of the attempt (DNF), at the discretion of the judge.

B1a) There is no inspection period.

 

[BillyRain]

Exactly, you would see nothing but shaking hands...
Theorethically there could be an advantage, but I don't think they even have the same solving orientation, so what...

Hmm.. Only takes a split second to spot a solved/flipped corner or edge though that you may have missed otherwise.

Just adding a point.. I'm not supporting any theory that this solve is not legal.

 

[cubizh]

But in BLD, the judge doesn't ask "READY?" (A3b1), since there is no inspection and the competitor lifts the cover, so I don't think A3b1 can be applied. A few times I have asked for a little break when my cube returned to fast from the scramble table (in BLD rounds) and I never encountered problems with that. I'm not the slowest guy at the competitions I attended, so it didn't mess up the time schedule of course. I wouldn't do it if it would slow down the competition.

Edit: Regulation B1a removes A3b1 from BLD events.
A3 is about inspection:
A3) Inspection:
(...)
A3b1) When the judge believes the competitor is ready, he asks "READY?". The competitor must be ready to start the attempt within one minute of being called. Penalty: disqualification of the attempt (DNF), at the discretion of the judge.

B1a) There is no inspection period.

Yes, although A3b1) regulates the "attempt", which is something that includes more than just the inspection step, but I see what you're saying.
Hopefully the WRC will be able to issue a clarification or a statement regarding this subject so it can become clearer. Thanks to Kit for bringing it up.

 

[Brest]

Marcin Zalewski & Grzegorz Jałocha - 3x3BLD - Cubers Eve 2013

Spoiler: Video

[youtubehd]qwY69TJBkhw[/youtubehd]

Marcin

Spoiler: Solve 1 - 28.88

F2 D U L D' B2 F D2 L D R D' B' U' B2 R2 F' D2

// edges
R2' E R U' R' E' R U R
U' R' E' R U' R' E R U2
U' L' U' L U L U L U' L'
R U' R' U M' U' R U r'
L U L E' L' U' L E L2'
M' U' L U M2' U' L' U M'
(M' U')3 M' U2' (M' U')3 M'
// corners
x' U2 R' D2 R U2 R' D2 R x
U R' D' R U R' D R U2
R' U L U' R U L' U U2'
x' R U2' R' U' R U' R' U2' R' U2' R U R' U R U2'
View at alg.garron.us

[b]Step	Time	STM	stps	ETM	etps[/b]		[B][SIZE="4"]%[/SIZE]
Total	28.88						Step		Time	STM	ETM[/B]
Memo	9.72						Memo/Total	33.7%
[COLOR="red"]Solve	19.16	112	5.85	120	6.26	[/COLOR]	Solve/Total	66.3%
edges	12.92	70	5.42	74	5.73		edges/Solve	67.4%	62.5%	61.7%
corners	6.24	42	6.73	46	7.37		corners/Solve	32.6%	37.5%	38.3%

Spoiler: View as executed

F2 D U L D' B2 F D2 L D R D' B' U' B2 R2 F' D2

// edges
R2' E R U' R' E' R U R
U' R' E' R U' R' E R U2
U' L' U' L U L U L U' L'
R U' R' U R' r U' R U r'
L U L E' L' U' L E L2'
r R' U' L U R' M' r U' L' U R' r
(M' U')3 M' U2' (M' U')3 M'
// corners
x' U2 R' D2 R U2 R' D2 R x
U R' D' R U R' D R U2
R' U L U' R U L' U U' U'
x' R U2' R' U' R U' R' U2' R' U2' R U R' U R U2'
View at alg.garron.us

Spoiler: Solve 2 - 31.20 (DNF)

F2 L' B2 D2 U F U' R' B' U2 L2 D R' F R2 B' L' R'

// corners
r U' R' U M U' R U R'
D M' U' R U M U' R' U D'
M' U R' E R U' R' E' R2 r'
x' R' U M' U2 M U R x
E2' R' U' R E2' R' U R
U' R' U' M U R U' M' U2
// edges
l' U' L U R U' r' F
D R' U R' D2 R U' R' D2 R2 D'
R U R' U R' D R U' R' D' R2 U' R'
R U R' U R' D R U' R' D' R2 U' R'
U3 R U2' R' U2 R' U' R U R U' R' U2' R' U2' R U
View at alg.garron.us

[b]Step	Time	STM	stps	ETM	etps[/b]		[B][SIZE="4"]%[/SIZE]
Total	34.20						Step		Time	STM	ETM[/B]
Memo	11.04						Memo/Total	32.3%
[COLOR="red"]Solve	23.16	116	5.01	129	5.57	[/COLOR]	Solve/Total	67.7%
corners	11.76	52	4.42	63	5.36		corners/Solve	50.8%	44.8%	48.8%
edges	11.40	64	5.61	66	5.79		edges/Solve	49.2%	55.2%	51.2%

Spoiler: View as executed

F2 L' B2 D2 U F U' R' B' U2 L2 D R' F R2 B' L' R'

// corners
r U' R' U r' R U' R U R'
D r R' U' R U r' R U' R' U D'
r R' U R' E R U' R' E' R2 r'
x' R' U r R' U2 r' R U R x
E2' R' U' R E2' R' U R
U' R' U' R r' U R U' r R' U2
// edges
l' U' L U R U' r' F
D R' U R' D2 R U' R' D2 R2 D'
R U R' U R' D R U' R' D' R2 U' R'
U U' R U R' U R' D R U' R' D' R2 U' R'
U U2 R U2' R' U2 R' U' R U R U' R' U' U' R' U2' R U
View at alg.garron.us

Spoiler: Solve 3 - 23.91

U2 L R2 D2 R2 B2 F2 R D' F2 U2 L2 U2 L' F' D2 U'

// edges
R' U' R E2' R' U R E2'
U2' L E L' U' L E' L' U'
M2' u' R' u M2' u' R u
M U' M' U2' M U' M'
x U' L U M' U' L' U M x'
// corners
R U R U' R' D' R U R' (U' D) R'
U R D' R' U' R D R'
y' R U2 R' U' R U' R' L' U2 L U L' U L y
F2 R U2 R' U' R U' R' L' U2 L U L' U L F2
View at alg.garron.us

[b]Step	Time	STM	stps	ETM	etps[/b]		[B][SIZE="4"]%[/SIZE]
Total	23.91						Step		Time	STM	ETM[/B]
Memo	8.62						Memo/Total	36.1%
[COLOR="red"]Solve	15.29	91	5.95	100	6.54	[/COLOR]	Solve/Total	63.9%
edges	7.88	40	5.08	46	5.84		edges/Solve	51.5%	44.0%	46.0%
corners	7.41	51	6.88	54	7.29		corners/Solve	48.5%	56.0%	54.0%

Spoiler: View as executed

U2 L R2 D2 R2 B2 F2 R D' F2 U2 L2 U2 L' F' D2 U'

// edges
R' U' R E2' R' U R E2'
U2' L E L' U' L E' L' U'
R' M' r u' R' u R' M' r u' R u
M U' M' U2' M U' M'
x U' L U r R' U' L' U r' R x'
// corners
R R' R U R U' R' D' R U R' (U' D) R'
U R D' R' U' R D R'
y' R U2 R' U' R U' R' L' U2 L U L' U L
R2 y R U2 R' U' R U' R' L' U2 L U L' U L x U2
View at alg.garron.us

Grzegorz

Spoiler: Solve 2 - 30.35

F2 L' B2 D2 U F U' R' B' U2 L2 D R' F R2 B' L' R'

y // memo
// corners
L R U R' U R U2' R' L' U' L U' L' U2
R2 D' L' D R2 D' L D
R' D2 R U R' D2 R U'
R2' D' R U' R' D R U R
// edges
y' R U M' U' R' U M U' y
U' M' U M' U2 M U M U
M' U R' U' M U R U'
U L U M2' U' L' U M2' U2
R D' M D R' D' M' D
y' U' M U R' U' M' U R
View at alg.garron.us

[b]Step	Time	STM	stps	ETM	etps[/b]		[B][SIZE="4"]%[/SIZE]
Total	30.35						Step		Time	STM	ETM[/B]
Memo	11.13						Memo/Total	36.7%
[COLOR="red"]Solve	19.22	89	4.63	101	5.25	[/COLOR]	Solve/Total	63.3%
corners	8.56	39	4.56	42	4.91		corners/Solve	44.5%	43.8%	41.6%
edges	10.66	50	4.69	59	5.53		edges/Solve	55.5%	56.2%	58.4%

Spoiler: View as executed

F2 L' B2 D2 U F U' R' B' U2 L2 D R' F R2 B' L' R'

y // memo
// corners
L R U R' U R U' U' R' L' U' L U' L' U U
R2 D' L' D R2 D' L D
R' D D R U R' D2 R U'
R2' D' R U' R' D R U R
// edges
y' R U M' U' R' U r' R U' y
U' M' U M' U U M U M U
M' U R' U' r' R U R U'
U L U R' M' r U' L' U R' M' r U2
R D' M D R' D' M' D
y' U' r' R U R' U' M' U R
View at alg.garron.us