The WCA is not listening to the FTO community

Joined
Aug 21, 2025
Messages
29
Location
Buffalo, NY
WCA ID
2022MASC01
Let me get straight to the point. Here is a comparison of Clock when it was first added in the WCA, and FTO now in various categories.
CategoryFace-Turning OctahedronRubik's Clock
1. When did Erno Rubik patent the puzzle?He patented a puzzle functionally identical to the Skewb Diamond which is a predecessor of the FTO in 1980.He bought the patent for the Rubik's clock in 1988. He had no involvement in the creation process.
2. What is the logical reason this puzzle should be included in the WCA?It's manufactured by Rubik's.It is a face-turning platonic solid puzzle, that fills in the gap bewteen cube and dodecahedron. It has a large speedsolving community across multiple continents. It has been highly requested.
3. What features does this cube lack when compared to other puzzles currently in the WCA?It isn't even a combination puzzle. It lacks the ability to permute. You can't tell it's solved without looking at both sides. It does not stand upright easily. Its inner mechanism is convoluted.... :3
4. What unique features does this cube offer when compared to other puzzles currently in the WCA?Pins and dials.This puzzle is fairly standard. It does have orbit limitations which are not present in any other puzzle in the WCA (as far as I know).
5. What is the solving experience, and would having it bring new names to high level competition?(a. I'm not mentioning 7-Simul, because it is the only thing that makes Clock interesting in terms of solving.)
b. You match up the clocks...
and then you're done!
... I guess it brings new names to the leaderboards, though.
A snail could learn how to solve this puzzle.
There is one prevalent method, however, like 3x3, the depth of the puzzle allows for tips and tricks to be used to optimize the solving experience, differentiating classes of solvers. Its orbits allow for a fun challenge.
It's about as difficult as learning the 4x4 for the first time.
There is an entire FTO-subcommunity that are not familiar faces to those on the world stage.
6. What hardware options are available for this puzzle?(a. I'm not mentioning the hardware updates prompted by cube maufacturers capitalizing on the opportunity to make an boscure puzzle speedsolvable. This will happen if you added any event to the WCA, even the Dayan Gem IV.)

b. A modded Rubik's is quite literally your only option.
LanLan Octahedron, Dayan FTO, Dayan FTO NEO, Diansheng Galaxy FTO, Shengshou FTO, are all listed as for sale on TheCubicle.
7. What is its main argument against its inclusion?See sections 1, 2, 3, 4, 5b, and 6b of this post. (By the way, most people still don't know how to scramble a clock, I believe)This event will take away from others. You will see my response below. (Scrambling is like 3x3 except with BL and BR)

Square-1, Megaminx, 4,5,MBLD, FMC, you do realize you can solve at home, organize virtual meetups and participate in virtual competitions, and, best of all...

ORGANIZE YOUR OWN WCA COMPETITIONS.

You can have a competition where the only events are 3x3, 2x2, and Sq-1! Because it's been done before! The FTO community doesn't have this opportunity.

We've all heard the "slices of pizza" analogy from "The Case Against Clock", but I have a counter-point. The last event added to the WCA was the Skewb (which probably doesn't deserve to be in the WCA anyway, more than Clock but still), and that was added in 2014. Imagine if you had 12 years to eat one small slice of pizza. It would be good for the first hour. Maybe you put it into the fridge, then reheat it later. Eventually, you'll have to eat it all. And then what? No more pizza. Oh no, no more pizza! If I go a few days without eating anymore pizza... I'll starve!

I do understand you though, coming from a place of fear. Competitions should host your event often, because the air of competition and the crispiness of an official PR is addicting. That's why the WCA should remove 4, 5BLD, and 6, and 7x7, because they take up too much time to do something that could easily be done in another event. Someone solved a square 1 blind, a megaminx blind, a 6x6 blind, does that mean we should add those to the WCA? No, of course not. Probably shouldn't have eaten those slices just because they smelled nice.

Thank you for reading all the way to the end. Please don't flame me in the comments. If you're going to respond to this post. tell me if you agree or disagree and why
 
Let me get straight to the point. Here is a comparison of Clock when it was first added in the WCA, and FTO now in various categories.
CategoryFace-Turning OctahedronRubik's Clock
1. When did Erno Rubik patent the puzzle?He patented a puzzle functionally identical to the Skewb Diamond which is a predecessor of the FTO in 1980.He bought the patent for the Rubik's clock in 1988. He had no involvement in the creation process.
2. What is the logical reason this puzzle should be included in the WCA?It's manufactured by Rubik's.It is a face-turning platonic solid puzzle, that fills in the gap bewteen cube and dodecahedron. It has a large speedsolving community across multiple continents. It has been highly requested.
3. What features does this cube lack when compared to other puzzles currently in the WCA?It isn't even a combination puzzle. It lacks the ability to permute. You can't tell it's solved without looking at both sides. It does not stand upright easily. Its inner mechanism is convoluted.... :3
4. What unique features does this cube offer when compared to other puzzles currently in the WCA?Pins and dials.This puzzle is fairly standard. It does have orbit limitations which are not present in any other puzzle in the WCA (as far as I know).
5. What is the solving experience, and would having it bring new names to high level competition?(a. I'm not mentioning 7-Simul, because it is the only thing that makes Clock interesting in terms of solving.)
b. You match up the clocks...
and then you're done!
... I guess it brings new names to the leaderboards, though.
A snail could learn how to solve this puzzle.
There is one prevalent method, however, like 3x3, the depth of the puzzle allows for tips and tricks to be used to optimize the solving experience, differentiating classes of solvers. Its orbits allow for a fun challenge.
It's about as difficult as learning the 4x4 for the first time.
There is an entire FTO-subcommunity that are not familiar faces to those on the world stage.
6. What hardware options are available for this puzzle?(a. I'm not mentioning the hardware updates prompted by cube maufacturers capitalizing on the opportunity to make an boscure puzzle speedsolvable. This will happen if you added any event to the WCA, even the Dayan Gem IV.)

b. A modded Rubik's is quite literally your only option.
LanLan Octahedron, Dayan FTO, Dayan FTO NEO, Diansheng Galaxy FTO, Shengshou FTO, are all listed as for sale on TheCubicle.
7. What is its main argument against its inclusion?See sections 1, 2, 3, 4, 5b, and 6b of this post. (By the way, most people still don't know how to scramble a clock, I believe)This event will take away from others. You will see my response below. (Scrambling is like 3x3 except with BL and BR)

Square-1, Megaminx, 4,5,MBLD, FMC, you do realize you can solve at home, organize virtual meetups and participate in virtual competitions, and, best of all...

ORGANIZE YOUR OWN WCA COMPETITIONS.

You can have a competition where the only events are 3x3, 2x2, and Sq-1! Because it's been done before! The FTO community doesn't have this opportunity.

We've all heard the "slices of pizza" analogy from "The Case Against Clock", but I have a counter-point. The last event added to the WCA was the Skewb (which probably doesn't deserve to be in the WCA anyway, more than Clock but still), and that was added in 2014. Imagine if you had 12 years to eat one small slice of pizza. It would be good for the first hour. Maybe you put it into the fridge, then reheat it later. Eventually, you'll have to eat it all. And then what? No more pizza. Oh no, no more pizza! If I go a few days without eating anymore pizza... I'll starve!

I do understand you though, coming from a place of fear. Competitions should host your event often, because the air of competition and the crispiness of an official PR is addicting. That's why the WCA should remove 4, 5BLD, and 6, and 7x7, because they take up too much time to do something that could easily be done in another event. Someone solved a square 1 blind, a megaminx blind, a 6x6 blind, does that mean we should add those to the WCA? No, of course not. Probably shouldn't have eaten those slices just because they smelled nice.

Thank you for reading all the way to the end. Please don't flame me in the comments. If you're going to respond to this post. tell me if you agree or disagree and why
IMG_2265.png

FTO has pins and dials?

On a serious note, I agree that FTO should be an event, but I don’t agree to remove the events you listed (except weakly, clock), and especially 4BLD. I think the culture should be more focused on inclusion of events, and less on removing them
 
Let me get straight to the point. Here is a comparison of Clock when it was first added in the WCA, and FTO now in various categories.
CategoryFace-Turning OctahedronRubik's Clock
1. When did Erno Rubik patent the puzzle?He patented a puzzle functionally identical to the Skewb Diamond which is a predecessor of the FTO in 1980.He bought the patent for the Rubik's clock in 1988. He had no involvement in the creation process.
2. What is the logical reason this puzzle should be included in the WCA?It's manufactured by Rubik's.It is a face-turning platonic solid puzzle, that fills in the gap bewteen cube and dodecahedron. It has a large speedsolving community across multiple continents. It has been highly requested.
3. What features does this cube lack when compared to other puzzles currently in the WCA?It isn't even a combination puzzle. It lacks the ability to permute. You can't tell it's solved without looking at both sides. It does not stand upright easily. Its inner mechanism is convoluted.... :3
4. What unique features does this cube offer when compared to other puzzles currently in the WCA?Pins and dials.This puzzle is fairly standard. It does have orbit limitations which are not present in any other puzzle in the WCA (as far as I know).
5. What is the solving experience, and would having it bring new names to high level competition?(a. I'm not mentioning 7-Simul, because it is the only thing that makes Clock interesting in terms of solving.)
b. You match up the clocks...
and then you're done!
... I guess it brings new names to the leaderboards, though.
A snail could learn how to solve this puzzle.
There is one prevalent method, however, like 3x3, the depth of the puzzle allows for tips and tricks to be used to optimize the solving experience, differentiating classes of solvers. Its orbits allow for a fun challenge.
It's about as difficult as learning the 4x4 for the first time.
There is an entire FTO-subcommunity that are not familiar faces to those on the world stage.
6. What hardware options are available for this puzzle?(a. I'm not mentioning the hardware updates prompted by cube maufacturers capitalizing on the opportunity to make an boscure puzzle speedsolvable. This will happen if you added any event to the WCA, even the Dayan Gem IV.)

b. A modded Rubik's is quite literally your only option.
LanLan Octahedron, Dayan FTO, Dayan FTO NEO, Diansheng Galaxy FTO, Shengshou FTO, are all listed as for sale on TheCubicle.
7. What is its main argument against its inclusion?See sections 1, 2, 3, 4, 5b, and 6b of this post. (By the way, most people still don't know how to scramble a clock, I believe)This event will take away from others. You will see my response below. (Scrambling is like 3x3 except with BL and BR)

Square-1, Megaminx, 4,5,MBLD, FMC, you do realize you can solve at home, organize virtual meetups and participate in virtual competitions, and, best of all...

ORGANIZE YOUR OWN WCA COMPETITIONS.

You can have a competition where the only events are 3x3, 2x2, and Sq-1! Because it's been done before! The FTO community doesn't have this opportunity.

We've all heard the "slices of pizza" analogy from "The Case Against Clock", but I have a counter-point. The last event added to the WCA was the Skewb (which probably doesn't deserve to be in the WCA anyway, more than Clock but still), and that was added in 2014. Imagine if you had 12 years to eat one small slice of pizza. It would be good for the first hour. Maybe you put it into the fridge, then reheat it later. Eventually, you'll have to eat it all. And then what? No more pizza. Oh no, no more pizza! If I go a few days without eating anymore pizza... I'll starve!

I do understand you though, coming from a place of fear. Competitions should host your event often, because the air of competition and the crispiness of an official PR is addicting. That's why the WCA should remove 4, 5BLD, and 6, and 7x7, because they take up too much time to do something that could easily be done in another event. Someone solved a square 1 blind, a megaminx blind, a 6x6 blind, does that mean we should add those to the WCA? No, of course not. Probably shouldn't have eaten those slices just because they smelled nice.

Thank you for reading all the way to the end. Please don't flame me in the comments. If you're going to respond to this post. tell me if you agree or disagree and why
i think you mixed some of the FTO characteristics with Clock lol
I think it’s about time we added a new event to the WCA though. FTO seems like a great addition because it adds a completely different shaped puzzle to the WCA while being somewhat cubic-looking (*cough cough clock), and the times people are getting on it (from my knowledge) is around the 20 second or 15 second area, which is great because most WCA events now don’t have events within that range (aside from 3BLD).

You should probably post this in the WCA Forum too. They have an entire discussion on this.
 
If you want to have FTO added you should probably not argue the for the removal of multiple other events, You will have very little sympathy from a lot of cubers (in this case me included.) However I'm fine for adding it in addition to the current events. We used to have 18 events when feet was around so it should not be a problem adding it without any removals of other events.
 
i think you mixed some of the FTO characteristics with Clock lol
I think it’s about time we added a new event to the WCA though. FTO seems like a great addition because it adds a completely different shaped puzzle to the WCA while being somewhat cubic-looking (*cough cough clock), and the times people are getting on it (from my knowledge) is around the 20 second or 15 second area, which is great because most WCA events now don’t have events within that range (aside from 3BLD).

You should probably post this in the WCA Forum too. They have an entire discussion on this.
me while reading this: “this guy has some good points, i wonder who he is”
me after reading it: “oh it’s me”
 
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