Remove 3x3x3 with Feet as an Official Event?

[qqwref]

Honestly I think the fact that feetsolving is still stuck above 30 seconds shows just how awkward it is. Yes, of course there are little optimizations you can do, and you can practice the hell out of anything to get better at it. But you're still solving a 3x3x3 in over 30 seconds. Compare that to OH where the best solvers are getting times that would be pretty solid if they were 2h times, or BLD where the best people average under 20 seconds in execution. And because feet is so slow, thinking is a tiny part of it. I imagine all top feetsolvers can comfortably look ahead at twice this speed. My point is that feet just doesn't have the potential to compete with the other events in mental difficulty or turn speed.

 

[antoineccantin]

And because feet is so slow, thinking is a tiny part of it. I imagine all top feetsolvers can comfortably look ahead at twice this speed. My point is that feet just doesn't have the potential to compete with the other events in mental difficulty or turn speed.

I don't know if you'd consider me a "top feetsolver", but I have a hard time looking a head in feet, and it isn't rare for me not to have found my next F2L pair. I'm sure that is common for other "top feetsolvers" as there is often pauses of a second or so i between pairs.

 

[Skullush]

Biggest challenge in feetsolving is limited visibility of the cube

 

[antoineccantin]

Biggest challenge in feetsolving is limited visibility of the cube

This.

 

[AvGalen]

This.

Bigger cube, smaller feet, eyes closer to the cube...or just don't do feet

 

[uberCuber]

Bigger cube, smaller feet, eyes closer to the cube...or just don't do feet

Giant foot cube! It has to have that name for a reason, right?

...or you could just not do feet.

 

[Skullush]

Bigger cube, smaller feet, eyes closer to the cube...or just don't do feet

I mean, naturally you can only see ~3 sides at a time, and unlike speedsolve or OH, you can't just tilt the cube a little bit to look at one of the sides without seriously affecting your speed. Cube size has nothing to do with it, it's not as if the cube is so small that you can't see it. It's just that you have some sides that are completely not visible unless you stop and turn the cube over

 

[PhillipEspinoza]

With all the slippery slope arguments and ad hominems I feel like this debate is exactly like the debate of same sex marriage in the US. You have people who obviously have an issue with Feet, for whatever reason, who want to argue that Feet should NOT be allowed as a recognized event. They use their strong feelings against Feet to start up threads like this when really it's not that big of a deal and argue passionately against something they believe is wrong. Then you have people who argue that Feet shouldn't be allowed as an official event because it compromises the sanctity of cubing (marriage) and that people won't take it seriously anymore. Then you have people saying well why don't we just let solving naked be an event? Why don't we allow dogs to marry? Why don't we just use slippery slopes? Then you have those who say you can simply ignore it, as it doesn't effect you (which is effin true). Then you have those who say "You can't just expect me to ignore it, it's icky". Then you have those saying that it would be a burden on competition organizers (churches) because running the event takes too long and is hard to find runners for and may go against their beliefs (forcing same sex marriage on churches that don't want them).

Bottom line, hate to break it to you Pi, is that people should be allowed to marry (or cube) whoever (however) the heck they want CUZ IT DOESN'T AFFECT YOU. And you can argue till your blue in the face that it does in fact effect you but you would just be clinging on to your extreme hatred for something to explain why it does. "My children will have to learn about it" "Media will laugh at us. Uh, hate to break it to you again, but Feet solving doesn't make cubing less legitimate in the eyes of the world, CUBING makes cubing less legitimate in the eyes of the world. It's a toy! If you want to make cubing more serious and legitimate to the world, in my eyes, you need to have less 8-15 year olds doing it but does that mean we should have an age minimum? No, because that would be asserting my subjective bias/opinion, whether I can substantiate it or not, into WCA policies that would potentially (not even potentially, actually) take away from the fun for a good amount of people.

 

[Kirjava]

CUZ IT DOESN'T EFFECT[sic] YOU

Of course it does, and there are reasons posted in this thread other than people not liking it.

I implore you to read threads before posting in future.

 

[Sajwo]

I think 3x3 WF and rubik's clock are the dumbest events ever. I would like to see someday skewb and 8x8 on competition.

 

[qqwref]

I don't know if you'd consider me a "top feetsolver", but I have a hard time looking a head in feet, and it isn't rare for me not to have found my next F2L pair. I'm sure that is common for other "top feetsolvers" as there is often pauses of a second or so i between pairs.

Oh really? Guess I was wrong about that then, my bad.

 

[Stefan]

All the more reason to keep feet!

Huh? No, you got that the wrong way. That's a reason why feet solving is *less* important than gay marriage, not more.

 

[antoineccantin]

Every competitor should have the equal right to compete and be officially recognized in their favorite event, without hindering the ability of others to do the same (ex. no super long events).

a better event/round

There is no "better event". It's all a matter of opinion and point of view.

 

[Stefan]

Footsolving, on the other hand, is simply an issue of what events we decide to make official in a competition.

It's about the right to do it officially, to get their solves officially recognized. Like marriage. Just because you avoided saying "rights" there, doesn't mean it doesn't have to do with equal rights.

 

[AvGalen]

Every competitor should have the equal right to compete and be officially recognized in their favorite event, without hindering the ability of others to do the same (ex. no super long events).

Where is match the scramble? Where is Skewb? Where is relay? Where is the logic behind this "having the right to be recognized"?

(I am stepping away from the gay marriage comparison. It was interesting for a bit, but every analogy only goes so far)

 

[qqwref]

Every competitor should have the equal right to compete and be officially recognized in their favorite event, without hindering the ability of others to do the same (ex. no super long events).

You're not seriously suggesting that, are you? Competitions have limited time, thus we must choose events by criteria other than "something that at least one person really likes". There is no more reason to include feetsolving just for you than there is to include qcube just for me. (Or Skewb for Ranzha, or cubing while juggling for Ravi, or 15 puzzle for stannic, or...)

 

[Ranzha]

Or Skewb for Ranzha

=3

What disqualifies feet from being officially recognised?

Do people learn different algorithms for feet specifically, just as OH solvers do?
Does the majority of the cubing community overall specifically dislike having feet as an event?

Although feet is in my opinion an impressive skill, I feel like it doesn't contribute anything substantially original to speedcubing. Not to mention that some people are deterred from it due to fears of lacking sanitation or to preferring the more intuitive handling of the cube with the hands. If a significant number of members of the cubing community disapprove of feet's official status, it should be removed promptly.

This said, I have no real problem with feet as it is, but as an event it seems too out of place and, as Vincent Sheu put it, a "sideshow".

 

[elrog]

I think the reason feet WR's are not dropping is simply because it is less popular. Sure the awkwardness may play a role, but its not the whole story. There are many factors involved in all kinds of cubing.

As for people saying we should have the 8x8 and 9x9 in competition, theres no point whatsoever. there are no new concepts added. I'll list out what they add to cubing from 4x4 up to 9x9.

4x4 - No fixed-centers or center edges, wing edges and centers added
5x5 - same concept as the 4x4 wing edges and corner centers, but with middle-edges fixed-centers and centers that are lined up in 1 layer with the fixed center
6x6 - 4x4 concepts, but allows for more ways to group pieces to solve the cube
7x7 - 5x5 concepts, but allows for more ways to group pieces to solve the cube
8x8 - 4x4 concepts, but not really any more ways to group pieces than the 6x6 that are not extremely similar to the 6x6
9x9 - 5x5 concepts, but not really any more ways to group pieces that the 7x7 that are not extremely similar to the 7x7

 

[Riley]

I don't think feet should get removed.

Magics had much more legitimate reasons for being removed, such as not being a twisty puzzle and being hard to judge. It's hard to argue with that.

Feet, however, people say is:

Unsanitary. Then provide gloves for scramblers? A recent competition in Japan even covered their timers with plastic.

Disliked by most of the speedsolving community. What about those of us who do like feet? I enjoy practicing feet. If my hands hurt, feet is probably what I will practice. People with some type of hand pains may prefer solving with feet as well. If OH can stay, why can't feet? I get that it's more popular, but really, it's the same as solving with a 3x3 2H. Yet it can stay. Feet also is solving a 3x3, showing another dexterity of the human body. People ask "then why not add elbow solving, it's also solving a 3x3?" Well, feet is already an event, unlike elbow solving.

Gives speedsolving a bad name to the media and the public. I don't think it does. The media loves (from what I've seen) feet solvers. I've talked to many people about solving the Rubik's cube, and they are very impressed when I say I can solve it with my feet. It's impressive to people and thus gains popularity for speedcubing.

Doesn't add any new material/won't contribute to the growth of methods. Like I said, solving OH is the same as solving 2H, except some people use algorithms that work for solving OH more easily. The same applies to feet. I personally use most (maybe all) of my OH LL algorithms for feet. And also, 6x6 and 7x7 aren't all that different from a 5x5. Most people just apply redux on 6x6/7x7 the same way they would on a 5x5.

To summarize, feet does not have an as legitimate reason to be removed as magics did.

 

[Tim Major]

Why not simply host a poll? I feel like if more people want it removed than want it kept, then it should be removed. If 4x4 had as much dislike as feet we could host a similar poll. Why are reasons needed?

Just have 3 options. Remove/keep/no opinion. Public poll.