"sub30 is easy"

[pipkiksass]

@Dene, no, not so much. If you see my original post on this thread you'll notice I'm sub-30 myself despite a distinct lack of skill, no special methods, horrible amounts of cube rotations, and issues at every stage in my solve. All I'm saying is that everyone is different - some people are stuck at sup-13, or sup-20. Others are stuck at sup-30. Wherever you're stuck, only good practice will help you progress. Whether that practice consists of slow turning to eliminate pauses at sup-30, or multi-slotting/*insert other advanced technique here*, to push below 10/12/15/whatever.

I'm not saying sub-30 is complicated, but just because something is simple doesn't mean it will be easy for everyone to do it, or that everyone will be able to achieve it in a certain period of time.

 

[Smiles]

sub 30 is something anyone can do, but it depends on commitment and how often you practice, how you practice, etc.
tps isnt an issue because, for example, cfop solves are about 60 htm, which is 2+ tps. that means t perm in 7 seconds!
lookahead isnt a big deal either, since i remember being a solid sub 25 without looking ahead one bit. 2 look OLL as well.
having a good cube isnt required since the tps doesnt need to be high.

so what do you need? a good understanding of your method, the ability to do it efficiently, and obviously a good ability to handle turning the cube.

getting to know your method and turning the cube with finger tricks is all basics. sure full PLL may take some work if you hate memorizing, but its part of the basics and saying sub30 is easy is assuming you know basics.

it takes time, but far less effort than barriers below 20

 

[applemobile]

Remember That that 5 second T-perm includes recognition. Which really is people's downfalls.

 

[mark49152]

Dene's done a great job of proving the OP's point.

 

[Dene]

Just stop talking.

Urright I am so great .

Remember That that 5 second T-perm includes recognition. Which really is people's downfalls.

If it's taking people that long, no wonder they're so slow. Perhaps they should practise...

Dene's done a great job of proving the OP's point.

And yet I find it interesting that everyone agreeing with the OP are all saying the same things e.g. "everyone's different"; "if it's simple for you it might not be simple for me"; but I don't see any real reasons here, just excuses. The truth is, they just don't put in the time and effort. Whether that's because they have other commitments is completely irrelevant; sub30 is still easy. Just like Escher was saying, if I could coach someone, and I'm not exactly a pro myself, I could get them sub30 in a short space of time as long as they were prepared to put in the practise. The only barriers I could possibly see preventing that from happening are either mental or physical disabilities.

 

[pipkiksass]

I'd love to have a cubing coach - someone to shout at me when I do pointless practice, and make me drill PLLs and slow down my F2L!

I think some people put in the time and effort, but maybe lack direction? I don't doubt that anyone could get sub-30 with a good instructor pointing out their errors and helping them improve.

 

[applemobile]

If it's taking people that long, no wonder they're so slow. Perhaps they should practise...

Colour and pattern recognition doesn't come easy to many people. When we breakdown speedsolving into its raw elements the key points are Colour/pattern recognition, dexterity, and memorization converted to muscle memory. To solve sub X you need to be sufficient at all of those things, at different levels. Without one of them you will get no where. Sure, to reach sub 30 you don't to be excellent at all of those things. You can have poor dexterity, you can have poor muscle memory. But you require at least moderate colour/pattern recognition. If your brain is not built to do this task, you will find it incredibly difficult to achieve faster times.

And yet I find it interesting that everyone agreeing with the OP are all saying the same things e.g. "everyone's different"; "if it's simple for you it might not be simple for me"; but I don't see any real reasons here, just excuses.

Oh gohd are you listening to yourself? At first i thought you were trolling, then i realised that you are just ignorant. Yes everyone is different, and different people will achieve different things in different times. This becomes most apparent when it comes to musical ability, mainly because its obvious when someone is awful. There are some people around that will never, ever how hard they try be able to keep a simple steady beat on a drum kit. They can practice all they want, but they will just achieve very little.

The truth is, they just don't put in the time and effort. Whether that's because they have other commitments is completely irrelevant; sub30 is still easy. Just like Escher was saying, if I could coach someone, and I'm not exactly a pro myself, I could get them sub30 in a short space of time as long as they were prepared to put in the practise. The only barriers I could possibly see preventing that from happening are either mental or physical disabilities.

Are you aware of the concept of terminal velocity?

 

[mark49152]

@Dene: You're completely missing the point. "Easy" is subjective. When you tell somebody that something they are struggling to achieve is easy or that they simply aren't practising enough, that is usually perceived as condescending, dismissive, arrogant and annoying, as the OP said - regardless of how you define easy or how much they practise or whether they go on to actually find it easy.

Besides which, the "it's easy" input is completely worthless and only serves to make one person irritated and the other look like a jerk, so why bother? If the intention is to offer encouragement, there are better ways to do it. There are some great resources on SS to help cubers get sub-30 and give them encouragement (like the race thread) so better to just point them at those than announce your judgement on their failure or laziness.

 

[Ninja Storm]

But time IS arbitrary. It's not false, it's a fact. That's like saying anyone can learn to speak fluent French in a year. Send someone who understands language to live in France, and they'll be speaking French in a fortnight, and fluent in 2 months. After a year, they've changed their name to Jean-Pierre and own a small garlic farm in Rouen. Sit someone who doesn't understand language in front of a YouTube video about how to learn French, let them practice in their own living room for an hour a night... 2 months later they're lucky if they're any further down the line. After a year, they're frustrated and wondering if French is the right language for them; maybe watching a YouTube video about how to learn Russian!

Everyone learns, and acquires skills, at a different pace, depending on how much time they can dedicate to the subject, and how analytically and methodically they approach it. Why should cubing be any different? It's entirely arbitrary to say that everyone should be able to achieve sub 'x' within 'y' months.

I'd agree with your comment about "decent practice" though, and I think this is the key. You can do 1000 timed solves a day, but if you aren't analysing your own solves, just blindly practicing, progress will be slow. So it's just as arbitrary to say 60,000 hours of practice will get you to sub 'x'. There's a massive difference between good practice and bad practice, and bad practice may get you to sub-30, but not very quickly!

I'm guilty of it myself - I'm sure I could be sub 20 already if I'd drilled PLLs and worked on my lookahead with slow solves, but I just love solving the cube! I have limited time to practice, so I spend the majority just doing solves. I'm happy with my progress - I know sub-20 will come, because I know what I need to work on. But I'm in no rush!

How long it will take each individual to get to sub-30 it's impossible to say. For some it'll be weeks, for some it'll be months or even years. Some may never make it. With the right guidance, "decent practice", support from other forum members and good use of the available resources, it should be achievable for most, but putting a time limit on it only flatters those who are lucky or talented enough to progress more quickly, and frustrates those who are already struggling.

Yeah, putting two different types of people into two different scenarios will certainly produce a biased outcome.

If someone is mentally retarded or has logic issues, then obviously they won't be sub-30 as fast as someone who has been doing multiple logic puzzles for years. However, because "for the most part", people fall within that spectrum, a majority of people will probably be sub30 within a year, as that's a decent time frame to understand a puzzle, and receive experience from others. "For the most part" my friends at school started cubing a year ago, and at this point, the ones that practiced and kept with cubing more than once per week are sub30.

 

[pipkiksass]

Lol, interesting interpretation of my post! I think the key phrase in yours is 'at school' - I'm not surprised that most of the people at your school have the time to put in decent practice, and also the school environment breeds competition. Someone with a full-time job and young family, cubing on their own at home, will clearly progress more slowly.

 

[antoineccantin]

If you're involved enough, yeah sure, you can be sub-30 in 2 weeks. However, many beginners don't know where to get the information, like good algs, how to practice or even where to get good cubes.

anyway, that's how I was.

 

[kunparekh18]

You people shouldn't speak about how long it takes to get sub-30, or how easy it is, especially you, Dene.

Just because you could get sub-30 quickly doesn't mean everybody could. Each and everyone has a different learning pace.

 

[JF1zl3]

To break the sub-30 barrier I had to learn full PLL

Sent from my A75 using Tapatalk 2

Words of truth right here.

 

[cxinlee]

Words of truth right here.

I'm not using full Pll and I am sub-20.

To get sub-30:
1. Make sure that your cube is good enough ( ShengShou is pretty good)
2. Practice.

 

[JHB]

.Someone with a full-time job and young family, cubing on their own at home, will clearly progress more slowly.

"Sorry but Daddy can't play with you know because he's practising."
"No Honey, I can't cook tea, I'm practising."
"No the report isn't done yet, I've been practising."

I AGREE: I know I could improve if I dedicated more time to the craft of cubing, but I'd rather be a dedicated father and husband and make a difference in the world with my chosen profession. My life is rich and fulfilling....so it doesn't bother me if I don't get a chance to practise. I've always got a cube in my pocket anyway.

Now young readers take note: Life is about people, not puzzles. Put people first and then cube to your heart's content if that's what makes you happy. Each time I look over the first thing I wrote here ("Sorry but Daddy can't play with you now because he's practising") it upsets me and I am so glad that it does. Who do you really want to be in life?

 

[pipkiksass]

Absolutely right - my daughter is asleep on me right now - I only cube when my wife and baby are in bed. I sometimes wonder how fast I'd be if I'd learnt when I was a student and had time to burn... But doesn't really bother me, I wouldn't swap my busy life now for anything!

 

[applemobile]

Now young readers take note: Life is about people, not puzzles. Put people first and then cube to your heart's content if that's what makes you happy. Each time I look over the first thing I wrote here ("Sorry but Daddy can't play with you now because he's practising") it upsets me and I am so glad that it does. Who do you really want to be in life?

That's your interpretation of what life is about. Not all of us are people orientated. Not all of us are family people. Some of use want to live our own lives and do whatever we want to do. Also, if one wants to succeed in a cuthroat buisness, you have to trample on peoples heads to get there. Putting people first in your life will not make you the director of a Multi-million pound/dollar/euro/potato company. Different people want different things.

 

[JHB]

Also, if one wants to succeed in a cuthroat buisness, you have to trample on peoples heads to get there. Putting people first in your life will not make you the director of a Multi-million pound/dollar/euro/potato company.

You are correct- some people have no soul. Not being about people is fine; we're all different. Some of us aren't blessed with family- I myself am clinging on to the few that I have. Ironically, if you are the director of a Multi-million pound/dollar/euro company then you won't have time to cube anyway. Only a monster would encourage people to intentionally tread on others to get ahead.
Please don't wish others to become evil. When I was young, and had others to support my interests and I honed my guitar skills, just as these young ones are honing their cubing skills. It's great that they might become world class cubers before the responsibilities of life take over. It's not a bad thing, it's just a thing.

 

[Petro Leum]

That's your interpretation of what life is about. Not all of us are people orientated. Not all of us are family people. Some of use want to live our own lives and do whatever we want to do. Also, if one wants to succeed in a cuthroat buisness, you have to trample on peoples heads to get there. Putting people first in your life will not make you the director of a Multi-million pound/dollar/euro/potato company. Different people want different things.

life is people oriented. always buy people first, then puzzles

 

[pipkiksass]

It's not a bad thing, it's just a thing.

Love it! May have to steal this.