chinese 7x7.....

[Ton]

http://www.windowslivetranslator.com/BV.aspx?ref=Internal#http://speedcube.ihost.tw/goods.php?id=326

This gives some translation

 

[d4m4s74]

buy it for the core and use real v-cube pieces for the rest

if it's adjustable

 

[DcF1337]

Tempting, really tempting.

But I hardly even touch my V7 to start with, so why bother?

PS. If you respect Verdes, please don't buy the Chinese 7x7.

 

[Escher]

No one should buy these. I won't. Someone should send V-cube an e-mail with a link to see if they can do something with their copyrights.
EDIT: How do you know how they are stickered? Did you buy one? They may be real v-cubes, because some of the pictures have the V-logo on them. They also may just be copied from the v-cube site. Thay do have the 6x6.

My 3x3 is a Rubik's brand -always will be- so I guess you will not buy ans use clone 3x3 like the DIY types A to F ?

im afraid that im going to have to take the view that these (and other) copies are acceptable - how can i possibly boycott one blatant copy and champion others (in the form of DIYs, eastsheens, v5s)?

with the v5, and eastsheens, the layman couldn't tell the difference between that and a rubiks product, despite their structural differences. The only 'obvious' difference is the lack of a logo.

with DIYs, they might have adjustable cores, different colours etc, but at the end of the day they are a ripoff of rubik's merchandise.

I'm not going to buy a chinese 7x7, but i cant let myself look down on anybody who does.

 

[Ton]

im afraid that im going to have to take the view that these (and other) copies are acceptable - how can i possibly boycott one blatant copy and champion others (in the form of DIYs, eastsheens, v5s)?

I guess that is what most cubers will do, expect with clone Rubik, Rubik is a strong brand and has specialist to protect the Rubik's cube. Even with clones Rubik gets a lot of money. I think this is not true for Mr Verdes, who I guess invest a lot and it will be hard to compete with clones. And to do legal actions in China is very difficult as I know for the Rubik's cube. In the end a clone 7x7 will hurt V-cube financially, I find this not fair. In the same way I think it is not fair to use non-Rubik brands 3x3.

 

[Jai]

http://www.windowslivetranslator.com/BV.aspx?ref=Internal#http://speedcube.ihost.tw/goods.php?id=326

This gives some translation

Windows Live Translator translated the product title of the china7 (chinese 7x7, like chinese megaminx -> chinaminx ) to "seven phase of the magic Necker jingpin (white) processing or purchase". XD

 

[Escher]

I guess that is what most cubers will do, expect with clone Rubik, Rubik is a strong brand and has specialist to protect the Rubik's cube. Even with clones Rubik gets a lot of money. I think this is not true for Mr Verdes, who I guess invest a lot and it will be hard to compete with clones. And to do legal actions in China is very difficult as I know for the Rubik's cube. In the end a clone 7x7 will hurt V-cube financially, I find this not fair. In the same way I think it is not fair to use non-Rubik brands 3x3.

I think that (I've heard that) China 'does not accept' external patents, i.e. they let manufacturers make whatever they like, as long as its good for the chinese economy!
i still maintain that having DIYs is 'a good thing', as it gives rubiks some healthy competition, meaning that they (probably) won't let standards completely drop.
I think my problem is that i have a deep dislike of monopolies, yet i completely appreciate verdes (and rubiks) innovation, so i don't know where to stand

 

[AvGalen]

im afraid that im going to have to take the view that these (and other) copies are acceptable - how can i possibly boycott one blatant copy and champion others (in the form of DIYs, eastsheens, v5s)?

I guess that is what most cubers will do, expect with clone Rubik, Rubik is a strong brand and has specialist to protect the Rubik's cube. Even with clones Rubik gets a lot of money. I think this is not true for Mr Verdes, who I guess invest a lot and it will be hard to compete with clones. And to do legal actions in China is very difficult as I know for the Rubik's cube. In the end a clone 7x7 will hurt V-cube financially, I find this not fair. In the same way I think it is not fair to use non-Rubik brands 3x3.

I still don't know what is protected and what isn't. Can anyone explain this to me "like I am a 10 year old"?

As far as I understand Eastsheen 2x2x2, 4x4x4 and 5x5x5 are perfectly legal because they have a different colorscheme, different internal mechanism and don't pretend to be Rubiks puzzles.

V5, V6 and V7 WHITE are obviously perfectly legal because they are unique creations and also fit the above 3 rules (colorscheme, mechanism, branding)

V5, V6 and V7 BLACK seem to violate the colorscheme rule, but nobody seems to care :confused:

Obviously clones that carry a V-Logo or a Rubiks-Logo are illegal (depending on the laws of the country they are made in)

All other cases seem to be unclear to me. So please, could someone
a) Confirm/Deny my assumptions about the 3 rules (colorscheme, mechanism, branding)
b) Give examples of common, but illegal, cubes and explain why
c) Explain in which countries these illegal cubes would be illegal

I have great respect for Verdes work, but at the same time I wouldn't mind more competition in the production of cubes. A competitor might just be what Verdes needs to fix the problems with the current models (unadjustable screws, locking, popping, spare-pieces come to mind)

 

[Ton]

For all 3x3 the are illegal they voilate Copyright, Rubik 3x3 is protect like an art object, patent is expired. So even an other internal mechanism will violate a Rubik's copyright.

V-cube 7x7 mechanism is patented if the clone uses the same it will be illegal

I do not think Rubik consider 4x4 and 5x5 all types legal, but they do not act on it

a) is not true for the 3x3 Rubik
b) all 3x3 non-Rubik are illegal , copyright violation
c) for Rubik if there is a distributor in that country

 

[Stefan]

b) all 3x3 non-Rubik are illegal, copyright violation

Which copyright? I tried to find it but failed. Can you show it to us?

 

[Odin]

Copyright notice


Rubik® and Rubik's Cube® are registered trademarks throughout the world of Seven Towns Limited. Seven Towns Limited is the exclusive worldwide licensee of copyright in the Rubik's Cube puzzle and is the registered proprietor of European Community Trade Mark registrations in the images of the Rubik's Cube puzzle and the puzzle itself.


Rubik's Cube, Rubik's Magic, Rubik's Snake, Rubik's Tangle, Rubik's Triamid, Rubik's Infinity, Rubik's Eclipse, Rubik's Mini Cube, Rubik's Snake Key Ring, Rubik's Cube Key Ring, Rubik's Bricks, Rubik's Double Tangram are trade marks of Seven Towns Ltd.


Seven Towns Ltd will prosecute unauthorized reproductions of the Rubik's Cube Puzzle, the Rubik's brand or any other intellectual property rights identified above. Such reproductions may also be seized and destroyed by customs authorities throughout the world.


© Rubik's/Seven Towns. All Rights Reserved.

 

[Ethan Rosen]

No one should buy these. I won't. Someone should send V-cube an e-mail with a link to see if they can do something with their copyrights.
EDIT: How do you know how they are stickered? Did you buy one? They may be real v-cubes, because some of the pictures have the V-logo on them. They also may just be copied from the v-cube site. Thay do have the 6x6.

My 3x3 is a Rubik's brand -always will be- so I guess you will not buy ans use clone 3x3 like the DIY types A to F ?

Theres a big difference there. 3x3 "clones" sold by cube4you and other vendors are not knockoffs. They are modifications on an expired patent, so not only is it legal for them to be produced, but a lot of the moral arguments to buying them are null since the differences are enough to make a signifigant increase in turning.

As far as I know, this is an exact copy, but with poorer quality because of cheap plastic. The patent exists, so this is illegal, and as far as anyone knows, there is no difference in the mechanism, so there is no moral argument to buy these either. Unlike with the DIYs, if you buy a knockoff 7x7, you are quite literallly aiding in theft.

 

[Stefan]

Odin, is that supposed to be an answer to my request? Because that's insufficient. At the very least, a definition of "Rubik's Cube puzzle" must be provided.

 

[Ton]

Theres a big difference there. 3x3 "clones" sold by cube4you and other vendors are not knockoffs. They are modifications on an expired patent, so not only is it legal for them to be produced, but a lot of the moral arguments to buying them are null since the differences are enough to make a signifigant increase in turning.

First many clone 3x3 are excellent products, but to Rubik they all violate Copyrights. It is illegal to import them e.g to Europe even if they do not use any brand. Wallmart made a big mistake in the past to produce a cube like in your argument....Now they sell them as Rubik..... ..

 

[AvGalen]

Patents never scared me, but Copyright would give 7 Towns an incredible amount of power. I just read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyrights and this part scares me

[edit] Exclusive rights

Several exclusive rights typically attach to the holder of a copyright:

• to produce copies or reproductions of the work and to sell those copies (mechanical rights; including, sometimes, electronic copies: distribution rights)
• to import or export the work
• to create derivative works (works that adapt the original work)
• to perform or display the work publicly (performance rights)
• to sell or assign these rights to others
• to transmit or display by radio or video (broadcasting rights)

"to perform or display the work publicly" means that all youtube tutorials that show a cube are copyright infringements

Actually, me cubing in a train would be as well

 

[Odin]

Odin, is that supposed to be an answer to my request? Because that's insufficient. At the very least, a definition of "Rubik's Cube puzzle" must be provided.

No. Its just the copyright Erno Rubik has on his little twisty puzzles. And sense it doesn’t go into much detail that’s more or less how people are able to make knock offs Of the "Rubik's Cube puzzle"....

 

[masterofthebass]

Personally, I don't see how you can copyright a mechanism for a puzzle. That entire "intellectual property" statement is complete crap. All that says, is that Seven Towns owns the trademark of the Rubik's brand. Unless you look at the Rubik's cube as a sculpture (which I'm sure it can be looked at, but i don't really think it applies) there is no basis for a copyright to be placed on it.


Maybe in the eye of Seven Towns, any 3x3 is a copyright infringement, but I highly doubt that is the case in actuality, since patents have been given to modified versions (i.e. Vcube). Just because you personally believe something, doesn't actually make it true.


Also, James (the owner of cube4you) is very aware of patents. I talked to him recently about making a new puzzle, and the first thing he asked me was "does someone own the patent." Cube4You is not, in my opinion, a "knockoff" company, when it comes to making cubes.

 

[Stefan]

Unless you look at the Rubik's cube as a sculpture (which I'm sure it can be looked at, but i don't really think it applies)

You mean like this?
http://www.patentlyo.com/patent/2004/11/rubiks_cube_r_a.html

 

[Ton]

Personally, I don't see how you can copyright a mechanism for a puzzle. That entire "intellectual property" statement is complete crap. All that says, is that Seven Towns owns the trademark of the Rubik's brand. Unless you look at the Rubik's cube as a sculpture (which I'm sure it can be looked at, but i don't really think it applies) there is no basis for a copyright to be placed on it.


Maybe in the eye of Seven Towns, any 3x3 is a copyright infringement, but I highly doubt that is the case in actuality, since patents have been given to modified versions (i.e. Vcube). Just because you personally believe something, doesn't actually make it true.


Also, James (the owner of cube4you) is very aware of patents. I talked to him recently about making a new puzzle, and the first thing he asked me was "does someone own the patent." Cube4You is not, in my opinion, a "knockoff" company, when it comes to making cubes.

Well Wallmart thought they could make cubes, Rubik consider any cube with 9 clored patches as its property. Wallmart lost a law suit on this. It is not the patent that is protected it is the image. The cube as object is considered the trademark and may not be copied. I respect cube4you but I think they violate the Rubik copyrights/trademark

 

[AvGalen]

Unless you look at the Rubik's cube as a sculpture (which I'm sure it can be looked at, but i don't really think it applies)

You mean like this?
http://www.patentlyo.com/patent/2004/11/rubiks_cube_r_a.html

I think 7 Towns really thinks of the Rubiks cube as a form of art (and I don't think they are wrong in that). The patent on the mechanism is gone and now they protect their market with the copyright (SMART!)

But from Stefan's link, that might not be realistic. So just like Stefan, I am wondering if 7 Towns has an official copyright (and them claiming so on their website doesn't count)

In a recent case (TrafFix), the Supreme Court ruled that items that were previously patented are generally considered functional. Because tradedress is only on nonfunctional features of an object, there can be no protection of previously patented elements

Ton, please keep patents, trademark and copyright seperate as they