Older cubers discussions

[newtonbase]

Nine year to reach this milestone ... sub1 a12 on 4x4x4

{(52.418), (1:09.054), 56.215, 55.510, 1:00.173}, 1:02.393, 56.469, 1:04.942, 58.282, 55.980, 1:01.594, 1:08.021
= 59.958
also includes a new {a5} PB of 57.299

Spoiler: scambles

Average of 12: 59.958
1. (52.418) U' r' B2 U2 F' B2 D' r D' B' U2 L' D2 f' F' U f' B F2 U' B2 U' F2 r F L U2 r' F D2 r' U B2 L2 F2 f' D2 L' F r'
2. (1:09.054) U2 L2 F L' R r2 F' L2 F L2 f2 r u2 B' u r' D' u' f B' r2 D2 r' L2 f R U L D2 B2 u2 L f D F2 f2 u' D2 B u
3. 56.215 r2 F r2 R B' u' U2 B u' F' D' L2 f' R2 F' D' u U f' D F2 u f' D2 B2 F' D2 f u U B f2 D r2 R' L B2 F2 u2 r
4. 55.510 R D2 f' F' r' B' R u F' R B f D R F2 D' r2 R2 D r' R2 L B' u2 D2 r2 R2 u' R' F' f r2 F2 r' D F U' R r' B'
5. 1:00.173 R' F u' U r F2 R r2 U r2 u2 L2 B2 u2 F' D' r2 u2 D2 L R U2 f' U2 u2 f' R' u2 r2 f' L' r R' D2 u2 R2 F B L2 U'
6. 1:02.393 L U u2 R2 L' f2 D R2 F2 R' F f r2 D R' U r R u2 B f' r2 F R2 u L' f L' D F D B' f' F' L2 r2 f2 R U2 B'
7. 56.469 L R' B u2 R' D2 L D f' F r2 f2 L F L2 r R2 D' B2 F r2 B R2 B2 U2 f B2 F' L r2 u R' B L' F2 B' U2 u L B
8. 1:04.942 L' f R2 u2 L' R D R2 D2 r u2 L2 D' u2 F2 f' r2 B' r' D R f2 U F2 u f' B u' D2 B' U' u R' F U' B' u F2 B R'
9. 58.282 U R2 U' u' F f2 D2 B D' F' D' L R' f' B2 u F2 R B2 F' L2 B2 f U2 F2 L' F2 u' D' U' L B2 D' F2 U f D2 u R' f'
10. 55.980 F' R r2 f' R' u' r U' r D2 u' B2 u F' U2 B R2 B R L u' r u B' u f2 D2 F B r2 B D B L2 f U2 f F2 U' R'
11. 1:01.594 D U r2 D' U2 R2 B2 f2 u2 B2 D2 r' L f' D2 U2 F2 L' r' R' B f' L' f' r2 D' R u2 r U2 f' L u2 f' B2 r2 L2 R2 B' R
12. 1:08.021 L R2 D R2 U' R2 B2 u2 B' f' u2 D' f' D' u' L2 D L' r U' u2 L2 D f u2 F2 L2 u2 f' B' U2 u B u' f' u' U' r2 F L'

Well done!

 

[Jason Green]

As I was practicing some blind tonight, I realized I don't have much of a clue as to what "average" improvement rates are amongst us older blinders. Maybe you guys talk about it as much as 3x3 improvement and I just never paid attention. I admit I did skim the blind posts in the past. I'd be curious to know approximately how improvement progressed for some of you, when you hit plateues, etc. I know @openseas hasn't been doing it too long I think and is already breaking 2 minutes, which seems a very fast progression. I forget when you started exactly Jae.

It was very motivating to me for 3x3 to help me pursue sub 20. Not just knowing how fast others did it but that it was attainable. I guess a follow up would be, what do you consider the "sub 20 equivalent" for blind? I guess with 3x3 it took me a while before I started believing I would be sub 20, but I don't even have any long term goals yet for blind. 2 minutes, 1:30, what's realistic for "most" people?

 

[openseas]

As I was practicing some blind tonight, I realized I don't have much of a clue as to what "average" improvement rates are amongst us older blinders. Maybe you guys talk about it as much as 3x3 improvement and I just never paid attention. I admit I did skim the blind posts in the past. I'd be curious to know approximately how improvement progressed for some of you, when you hit plateues, etc. I know @openseas hasn't been doing it too long I think and is already breaking 2 minutes, which seems a very fast progression. I forget when you started exactly Jae.

It was very motivating to me for 3x3 to help me pursue sub 20. Not just knowing how fast others did it but that it was attainable. I guess a follow up would be, what do you consider the "sub 20 equivalent" for blind? I guess with 3x3 it took me a while before I started believing I would be sub 20, but I don't even have any long term goals yet for blind. 2 minutes, 1:30, what's realistic for "most" people?

So, I started two weeks before Texas 2 days (~6/9, so, it makes roughly 5/25 as my start date), one week into the practice, first success was 5min. Since I've got the first sub2 late August, it took about 3 months from the start to sub 2. (Posting in the facebook makes it easy to keep track of when something happened But as we all know, it's not just time but more about practice. I didn't do any other events last 3 months except 3BLD & MBLD. These are much intense in terms of practice compared to 3x3.

When I started, of course, my goal was just getting an official success - now I know low/middle one minute is achievable. I didn't set any specific goals in terms of time for 3BLD but I do want to switch to 3-style and learn commutators at some points. I haven't started yet but just by reading, I realized how less I know about cubing & algorithms. I just memorized bunch of algorithms without understanding much so far.

Regarding sub-20 equivalent, I feel like sub 1 mark would be similar to that land mark (sub 20 in 3x3). I'll check official results & time : 3x3 vs 3BLD which can give us more statistical answer.

 

[h2f]

what "average" improvement rates are amongst us older blinders.

It's not easy to determine because it's up of 3 things: memo time, solve time and a method. If we take ratio normal solve to 3bld it looks like the ratio is around 1:4 (18,31/4,69=3,9). It means 20 seconds is like 1:20 second solve in 3bld . But 1:20 solve in 3bld ranks gives you 495 place of 4180 (around 11% of blinders got it). In normal solve sub20 solve gives you 27773 place of 78782 (around 35% of solvers got it). 35% solvers in 3bld got 2:33 time or better. So at first look it's between 2:30 and 1:20.

Looking at the methods: using CFOP it takes around 56 moves to solve the cube. To hit 20 seconds barrier you need 2look OLL so lets add 6 moves. 62/20=3,1 TPS. But with 3style you need around 90-100 moves to solve the cube. So with TPS 3,1 it gives 30 seconds solve time. But with M2/OP mixture I belive number grows to over 200. It means 200/3 = 66 seconds solve at least. After all you must add memo time to it.

Looking at these factors I think a fair equivalent of sub20 is sub 2 minutes. It means you can memo cube around 1 minute and your solve is the second minute which is quite fast: you are familiar with method, you can make some tricks to make it easier etc. My notes says I've got a single 2 minute solve after half year of practicing 3bld. This means hitting it is easier than 20 seconds in normal solve but the explanation is simple: all you learn in 3bld is only how to memo the cube because you know the algs (ok - you learn few extra algs but not so many as in normal solve). In normal solve it's harder because you learn algs and all the stuff to solve the cube.

 

[Jason Green]

So, I started two weeks before Texas 2 days (~6/9, so, it makes roughly 5/25 as my start date), one week into the practice, first success was 5min. Since I've got the first sub2 late August, it took about 3 months from the start to sub 2. (Posting in the facebook makes it easy to keep track of when something happened But as we all know, it's not just time but more about practice. I didn't do any other events last 3 months except 3BLD & MBLD. These are much intense in terms of practice compared to 3x3.

When I started, of course, my goal was just getting an official success - now I know low/middle one minute is achievable. I didn't set any specific goals in terms of time for 3BLD but I do want to switch to 3-style and learn commutators at some points. I haven't started yet but just by reading, I realized how less I know about cubing & algorithms. I just memorized bunch of algorithms without understanding much so far.

Regarding sub-20 equivalent, I feel like sub 1 mark would be similar to that land mark (sub 20 in 3x3). I'll check official results & time : 3x3 vs 3BLD which can give us more statistical answer.

Thanks, that seems really fast progression to me! I do think my practice is less these days than when I got into speed cubing, but I started blind 7/25 and do not really see myself catching up to 2 minutes by 3 months. I was guessing sub 1 is more like sub 15, but that's a wild guess I don't know where from.

 

[openseas]

It's not easy to determine because it's up of 3 things: memo time, solve time and a method. If we take ratio normal solve to 3bld it looks like the ratio is around 1:4 (18,31/4,69=3,9). It means 20 seconds is like 1:20 second solve in 3bld . But 1:20 solve in 3bld ranks gives you 495 place of 4180 (around 11% of blinders got it). In normal solve sub20 solve gives you 27773 place of 78782 (around 35% of solvers got it). 35% solvers in 3bld got 2:33 time or better. So at first look it's between 2:30 and 1:20.

Looking at the methods: using CFOP it takes around 56 moves to solve the cube. To hit 20 seconds barrier you need 2look OLL so lets add 6 moves. 62/20=3,1 TPS. But with 3style you need around 90-100 moves to solve the cube. So with TPS 3,1 it gives 30 seconds solve time. But with M2/OP mixture I belive number grows to over 200. It means 200/3 = 66 seconds solve at least. After all you must add memo time to it.

Looking at these factors I think a fair equivalent of sub20 is sub 2 minutes. It means you can memo cube around 1 minute and your solve is the second minute which is quite fast: you are familiar with method, you can make some tricks to make it easier etc. My notes says I've got a single 2 minute solve after half year of practicing 3bld. This means hitting it is easier than 20 seconds in normal solve but the explanation is simple: all you learn in 3bld is only how to memo the cube because you know the algs (ok - you learn few extra algs but not so many as in normal solve). In normal solve it's harder because you learn algs and all the stuff to solve the cube.

So, I compared 333 vs 3BLD for all official results.

333 Sub 10 = 3.8% --> 30s in 3BLD ranking
333 Sub 15 = 19.6% --> 63s in 3BLD ranking
333 Sub 20 = 36.6% --> 98s in 3BLD ranking

It is interesting. I think we can safely say that, Sub 20 ~ 90s, Sub 15 ~ 60s, Sub 10 ~ 30s in 3BLD but the big factor here is, not many people are doing 3BLD compared to 333, so, we can relax the spec(!) for 3BLD a little bit.

 

[openseas]

My notes says I've got a single 2 minute solve after half year of practicing 3bld. This means hitting it is easier than 20 seconds in normal solve but the explanation is simple: all you learn in 3bld is only how to memo the cube because you know the algs (ok - you learn few extra algs but not so many as in normal solve). In normal solve it's harder because you learn algs and all the stuff to solve the cube.

I agree. It took me longer than one year to break 20s at home. But another factor, as far as I know, we all started 3x3x3 first then started BLD once we are fairly good (relatively) at learning algs & turning fast enough. So, it's not like you learn 3BLD without any knowledge or finger trick practice. That is another factor which makes 3BLD progress a bit faster than 3x3x3.

 

[h2f]

333 Sub 10 = 3.8% --> 30s in 3BLD ranking
333 Sub 15 = 19.6% --> 63s in 3BLD ranking
333 Sub 20 = 36.6% --> 98s in 3BLD ranking

Are sure with these numbers in 3bld?

And a kind of accoplishment. My yesterdays solve in practicing memo. Around 1,5 to PB. (I didnt realize it till looked at my notes).

 

[openseas]

Are sure with these numbers in 3bld?

This table shows all events comparison by each 10% ranking.

 

[NewbieCuber]

After all this craze about magnetic cubes I finally gave in and decided to make one myself. Bought myself a cheap cube (MF3RS) to test the water and went to work. It was surprisingly easy and a little under two hours later I was finished and had the cube assembled again.
The result: meh.
Honestly not very impressed with this. The outer layers feel pretty good but M slices are absolutely horrible on this cube (it's also very locky, almost more so than before magnetizing it). It might be because of the cheap cube but right now I definitely don't want to take the chance of ruining my valk by putting magnets in it.

On a happier note: With the MF3RS I also ordered a thunderclap (v1) and I absolutely love this thing! There is a serious possibility this could replace the valk as my main so there's that

I love my MF3RS's and I sort of like, but am not overwhelmed with my Thunderclap. So many people like the Thunderclap that I'm thinking that I just need to do a couple hundred solves on mine before I decide if I like it or not. My main MF3RS has over 1000 solves on it (which is a lot for me since I'm pretty new to this) and it's just buttery smooth. I'm about to order a pre-magnatized MF3RS from thecubicle.us. I'll be interested to see if I have the same issues as you.

But you've inspired me to take out my Thunderclap and try it again.

 

[mark49152]

I agree that 1:30 3BLD is about equivalent to 20s 3x3. For me, improving down to about 30-25s was just about becoming more competent at solving 3x3 - learning a full method, developing good finger style and finding the right algs, becoming able to find pieces more quickly, etc. Improvement came naturally with practice. At about 30-25s it became necessary to focus on speed to get faster, and sub-20 was about the point where natural improvement stopped and it took deliberate and determined effort to get any faster.

I reached a similar stage with 3BLD at about 1:30. Down to about 2:00, improvement came naturally and I didn't have to think about being fast. Beyond that I had to focus more on speed, and at around 1:30 that's when I had to really start working deliberately to get faster, focusing on pushing memo, improving my execution methods and think ahead, etc.

 

[h2f]

This table shows all events comparison by each 10% ranking.

Ok. Thanks. I looked at WCA database.

 

[pglewis]

... And a kind of accoplishment. My yesterdays solve in practicing memo. Around 1,5 to PB. (I didnt realize it till looked at my notes). ...

This gets a definite "wow" from me .

I love my MF3RS's and I sort of like, but am not overwhelmed with my Thunderclap. So many people like the Thunderclap that I'm thinking that I just need to do a couple hundred solves on mine before I decide if I like it or not. My main MF3RS has over 1000 solves on it (which is a lot for me since I'm pretty new to this) and it's just buttery smooth. I'm about to order a pre-magnatized MF3RS from thecubicle.us. I'll be interested to see if I have the same issues as you.

But you've inspired me to take out my Thunderclap and try it again.

What I like about the Thunderclap is it seems to be a very tuneable puzzle via tensions and lube and it just seems so predictable from session to session. A lot of others seem to have a tension sweet spot and tend to revert to doing their thing a day or two after lubing. I'm disappointed in the feel of the stickerless Thunderclap vs. black, however, and I don't drag the old Thunderclaps out as often as I used to. But due to the price and reliability I'm fond of the idea of magnetizing a bunch of black ones for mbld like @newtonbase has done.

 

[pglewis]

I've been so lazy about blind practice and @Jason Green swoops right in and passes me immediately. Granted, my goal this year was just to learn it and maybe manage an official success. Learning it turned out to be a lot easier than I expected but I didn't take that opportunity forge ahead of my goals.

Longer term I'm more interested in breaking into mbld than focusing on 3bld speed; with 3bld I could be happy PB'ing a couple times next year. For mbld I managed a 2/2 once back in mid summer and I'd like to work up to the 3-5 range next year for an official attempt or two.

 

[Zerksies]

Hello I'm 38 and I've been cubing for about 10 years. I just started back up 2 months ago after a long kinda break. (I was excursively using V-cubes at the time.) They were really good at the time but not that good i guess that's why i kinda lost interest in cubing. I've had to relearn OLL,PLL and a bunch of parity. Well i stepped into a new world of all these nice Magnetic cubes. Right now I'm averaging 30 seconds but my PB is 22. I have had several hand surgeries (Not from cubing and before i ever started) but my best is Sub-18. I'm trying for sub 15 right now. I really enjoy the learning and stress relief that cubing gives me.

 

[pglewis]

Hello I'm 38 and I've been cubing for about 10 years. I just started back up 2 months ago after a long kinda break. (I was excursively using V-cubes at the time.) They were really good at the time but not that good i guess that's why i kinda lost interest in cubing. I've had to relearn OLL,PLL and a bunch of parity. Well i stepped into a new world of all these nice Magnetic cubes. Right now I'm averaging 30 seconds but my PB is 22. I have had several hand surgeries (Not from cubing and before i ever started) but my best is Sub-18. I'm trying for sub 15 right now. I really enjoy the learning and stress relief that cubing gives me.

Welcome back into it, you're in the right place. It's a very encouraging crowd with a free spending Like-based economy in here.

You've reminded me of something I've been meaning to open up for discussion: we have an unofficial over-40s ranking list at https://github.com/Logiqx/wca-ipy but I've thinking for a while that there would probably be a lot of interest in a 30-40 bracket. Most of the over 40s are probably first gen cubers like myself; that 30-40 range fits well for people active from the first renaissance in the early-mid aughts. Heck, I suspect we have more people in this thread, either active or lurking, in the 30-40 range than the over 40s.

 

[newtonbase]

Hello I'm 38 and I've been cubing for about 10 years. I just started back up 2 months ago after a long kinda break. (I was excursively using V-cubes at the time.) They were really good at the time but not that good i guess that's why i kinda lost interest in cubing. I've had to relearn OLL,PLL and a bunch of parity. Well i stepped into a new world of all these nice Magnetic cubes. Right now I'm averaging 30 seconds but my PB is 22. I have had several hand surgeries (Not from cubing and before i ever started) but my best is Sub-18. I'm trying for sub 15 right now. I really enjoy the learning and stress relief that cubing gives me.

Did we bump into each other on Facebook? I'm Mark Adams in real life.

 

[Jason Green]

Hello I'm 38 and I've been cubing for about 10 years. I just started back up 2 months ago after a long kinda break. (I was excursively using V-cubes at the time.) They were really good at the time but not that good i guess that's why i kinda lost interest in cubing. I've had to relearn OLL,PLL and a bunch of parity. Well i stepped into a new world of all these nice Magnetic cubes. Right now I'm averaging 30 seconds but my PB is 22. I have had several hand surgeries (Not from cubing and before i ever started) but my best is Sub-18. I'm trying for sub 15 right now. I really enjoy the learning and stress relief that cubing gives me.

Welcome, glad to see you here! Keep at it you'll get the sub 15 I'm sure.

 

[Zerksies]

Did we bump into each other on Facebook? I'm Mark Adams in real life.

Could be I'm in a few cubing groups on FB

 

[newtonbase]

Could be I'm in a few cubing groups on FB

I looked back. You mentioned your hand surgeries on a thread about over 40s where I posted a link to here and to @Logiqx 's older cubers data. Glad you made it.