CLLEF, the evil twin of COLL

I like to use COLL for my fridrich solves and I know that there are a few people out there who does too.
An argument not to use COLL is that COLL algorithms take longer to execute than the relevant OLL's. That's when an idea came to me...

What are the OLL's that most people hate. For me it's OLL's with no edges oriented correctly. Then I started to find different algorithms for the same OLL case with no edges oriented correctly.
Now I've found a full set of COLL algorithms that orients and permutes the corners of the last layer, and flips all four of the last layer edges. I call them CLLEF: "Corners Last Layer and Edge Flip"

So, is it worth it?
Compared to using COLL you have 40 cases to learn with CLLEF and COLL, recognition is also the same and the end result is an edge only PLL or PLL-skip.
CLLEF algorithms are longer than COLL on average, but that's not a fair comparison. Instead, COLL algorithms are longer then the respective OLL algorithms, but CLLEF algorithms are (so far) exactly 12.0 moves compared to 12.0 of the respective OLL's (taken from cubewhiz.com).

One negative point about CLLEF is that it is not very useful with other methods like Petrus og Roux.

I'm working on optimizing the CLLEF algorithms for speed but I'm almost done If anyone is interest in this I could add the algorithms to the wiki (under CxLL ?).
If this is just mad ramblings, tell me aswell.

If it flips all 4 edges, then you have found solutions for 4 cases. (Nothing oriented (2 cases), two corners and no edges oriented (1 case), all corners and no edges oriented (1 case))

EDIT

lol, that last post was a bit stupid

nitrocans post confused me a little...

LarsN said:

... algorithms that orients and permutes the corners of the last layer, and flips all four of the last layer edges.

Click to expand...

Do you seriously think that's only 8 cases ?!

LarsN said:

LarsN said:

... algorithms that orients and permutes the corners of the last layer, and flips all four of the last layer edges.

Click to expand...

Do you seriously think that's only 8 cases ?!

Click to expand...

Oh sorry, I wasn't reading properly. What I meant was, there are 4 cases out of 57 that you will be able to use these algorithms.

And an even lower probability than 4/57 during which you have to use these algs.

nitrocan said:

Oh sorry, I wasn't reading properly. What I meant was, there are 4 cases out of 57 that you will be able to use these algorithms.

Click to expand...

blah said:

And an even lower probability than 4/57 during which you have to use these algs.

Click to expand...

I can tell that you are not COLL users

Okay, COLL replaces 7/57 OLL's. CLLEF would replace 8/57 OLL's.

If that's what you want to measure then CLLEF should be better than COLL which some people allready use.

I'm not saying that this is the new supermethod. I'm saying that if you like to use COLL why not try CLLEF aswell.

I'm not a COLL user but I know what it is I just quoted the figure 4/57 because that's what nitrocan said. And I just realized that there are 8 OLLs with all edges flipped after you mentioned it, my bad. But still, the probability of using these algs is still lower than 8/57.

blah said:

I'm not a COLL user but I know what it is I just quoted the figure 4/57 because that's what nitrocan said. And I just realized that there are 8 OLLs with all edges flipped after you mentioned it, my bad. But still, the probability of using these algs is still lower than 8/57.

Click to expand...

why? of course too short

Zava said:

blah said:

I'm not a COLL user but I know what it is I just quoted the figure 4/57 because that's what nitrocan said. And I just realized that there are 8 OLLs with all edges flipped after you mentioned it, my bad. But still, the probability of using these algs is still lower than 8/57.

Click to expand...

why? of course too short

Click to expand...

Because the probability of getting any OLL is not 1/57. That's just the number of possible cases.

I use COLL everytime i get a COLL case. COLL should occour fewer times than CLLEF, so I figure that I should be able to effectively use CLLEF along with COLL. That's 15/57 cases that gives me edge-perm only or PLL-skip.

Again, I like to use COLL and think I'm going to like CLLEF too. I'm just trying to check if others might be interested in the algs for CLLEF?

Don't mind the corners when calculating probability for edge orientation. There are

4 * adjacent
2 * opposite
1 * all fliped
1 * all correct

total 8

I know a few algs for this method, some for the opposite cases and a big bunch of adjacent cases, Example = Sune r U R' U R U2 r' (yop!, use double layers and your COLL orients edges while solving corners, works for many algs)

@Kenneth
Your example wouldn't work for the idea I had with CLLEF, because it's for the corner cases with all edges flipped.

The only sune variant that I found for CLLEF was this:
r U2 R' U' R U' r2 U2 R U R' U r (and the inverse)

Do you know any other that would flip 4 edges?

Nice idea!
I think this is something that might actually be worth it for me to learn!
What is the average number of moves it require? I'd definitely consider it if it's around 13 moves or less. I hope it should be fingertrick friendly and no algs are over 16 moves.

fanwuq said:

Nice idea!
I think this is something that might actually be worth it for me to learn!
What is the average number of moves it require? I'd definitely consider it if it's around 13 moves or less. I hope it should be fingertrick friendly and no algs are over 16 moves.

Click to expand...

Thanks

I'm almost finished with the optimizing for speed (fingertricks) and at the moment the average number of moves is 12.0.

About fingertrick friendly algs I need to tell you that there are no 2-gens because you can't edgeflip with 2-gens (except for M U ones, but that wouldn't affect corners). The longest alg at the moment is 15 moves. It could be shorter but then it would be 6-gen!

Sounds good! When will the algs be up?

This really inspires me to actually learn full Fridrich. ~15 more OLLs+ this 40 some algs can't hurt!

I will slowly add the algs to the wiki Cxll page in the next couple of days.

LarsN said:

I will slowly add the algs to the wiki Cxll page in the next couple of days.

Click to expand...

Lars,

I will be interested. Actually I already use CELL for years and sometimes variate with Corner algs to optimize edges. I also have some CLLEF algs in my speed-algs. I'' check the wiki-pages next week

Gus

LarsN said:

@Kenneth
Your example wouldn't work for the idea I had with CLLEF, because it's for the corner cases with all edges flipped.

The only sune variant that I found for CLLEF was this:
r U2 R' U' R U' r2 U2 R U R' U r (and the inverse)

Do you know any other that would flip 4 edges?

Click to expand...

r' R2 U R' U r U2 r' U M' (and the mirror)

Lt-UnReaL said:

r' R2 U R' U r U2 r' U M' (and the mirror)

Click to expand...

Ah, I forgot about that one. That's the one I use for the regular OLL. So I use that one and the inverse (instead of the mirror) for the CLLEF cases.

LarsN said:

@Kenneth
Your example wouldn't work for the idea I had with CLLEF, because it's for the corner cases with all edges flipped.

The only sune variant that I found for CLLEF was this:
r U2 R' U' R U' r2 U2 R U R' U r (and the inverse)

Do you know any other that would flip 4 edges?

Click to expand...

Insert M' U M into the algs at some point, don't remmeber how I did Sune at the moment but you can try to start with M' U and then Sune + restore FL edge.