• Welcome to the Speedsolving.com, home of the web's largest puzzle community!
    You are currently viewing our forum as a guest which gives you limited access to join discussions and access our other features.

    Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community of 40,000+ people from around the world today!

    If you are already a member, simply login to hide this message and begin participating in the community!

ZZ-CT Progression Thread (Operation git gud CT)

ZF slow

Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2018
Messages
161
Location
an unknown basement
YouTube
Visit Channel
Hey, another progression thread! No way these are over-done, right?

oh well.

Recently finished learning full TSLE and wanted to make this just to document my progression with such a rarely used method.

Yesterday was actually day one, after learning full TSLE I took to timed solves and did alright. My ao1k is around 17.50, and I managed to get 2 14.xx ao5's, a 11.xx single, and pushed my ao25,50,100 down below 17.

Today is day two, and it's more of the same. Spam timed solves, make sure to plan more of eocross than I normally would, and try not to panic when I get a recently learned TSLE. I've realised I probably need to train a few sets again, so I'll stop typing and get to doing that.

PROGRESS:
- sub-17 ao1000 4/3/21
- sub-11 single, 4/3/21
- sub-16 ao100, 9/3/21
- sub-16 ao1000, 10/4/21
- sub 15 ao50, 24/4/21
- sub-13 ao5, 12.96 24/4/21
- sub-15 ao100, 14.86 24/4/21
- first sub-10 single with TTLL (9.97) 11/5/21
- sub-15 ao1000 11/5/21
- sub-14 ao100 16/5/21
- sub-14 ao500 11/6/21
- sub-13 ao100 12/6/21
- sub-12 ao12 12/6/21
- 8.42 PB single 12/6/21
- !!! 7.93 WB single 16/6/21 !!!
- sub-13 ao200 17/6/21
- sub-13 ao1000 23/6/21
 
Last edited:

OreKehStrah

Member
Joined
May 24, 2019
Messages
621
I hate to tell you this but there’s a better way of doing this than doing TSLE. You just do F2L like normal and you just pair one of the edges with any properly oriented corner, whether it’s the correct D layer corner or one of the 4 LL corners. This lets you get around TSLE’s FR slot dependency , and also allows you to use COLL after the F2L is completed to influence which TTLLs you get to avoid bad cases.
 

ZF slow

Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2018
Messages
161
Location
an unknown basement
YouTube
Visit Channel
I hate to tell you this but there’s a better way of doing this than doing TSLE. You just do F2L like normal and you just pair one of the edges with any properly oriented corner, whether it’s the correct D layer corner or one of the 4 LL corners. This lets you get around TSLE’s FR slot dependency , and also allows you to use COLL after the F2L is completed to influence which TTLLs you get to avoid bad cases.
Did that for 2 look before learning actual 2 look TSLE, then eventually TSLE. I'm not going to defend my approach as it probably is worse. TSLE doesn't have to be slot dependant though, with a good intuitive understanding of how the step functions.
If I wanted to do what was fastest, I'd learn ZBLL instead of CT :p
 
Last edited:

PapaSmurf

Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2018
Messages
942
WCA
2016TUDO02
YouTube
Visit Channel
I hate to tell you this but there’s a better way of doing this than doing TSLE. You just do F2L like normal and you just pair one of the edges with any properly oriented corner, whether it’s the correct D layer corner or one of the 4 LL corners. This lets you get around TSLE’s FR slot dependency , and also allows you to use COLL after the F2L is completed to influence which TTLLs you get to avoid bad cases.
That's not better. The COLL algs aren't necessarily great and you can mirror TSLEs relatively easily.

Anyway, cool to see another ZZ user! In terms of getting good with ZZ in general, if you want to be fast you'll want to work on seeing EOCross in inspection consistently and having good fingertricks. The second is best done by drilling algs. You should probably start with PLL (seeing as it comes up 1/5 solves compared to the 2/15 of the rest of the TTLL steps and you also probably know it), drilling the algs every day.
Another thing, as you've acknowledged, ZBLL is better, but you're still in a good position to move to C++ when you finish CT. Would be cool to see how that works out. Good luck!
1612274711921.png
 

ZF slow

Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2018
Messages
161
Location
an unknown basement
YouTube
Visit Channel
That's not better. The COLL algs aren't necessarily great and you can mirror TSLEs relatively easily.

Anyway, cool to see another ZZ user! In terms of getting good with ZZ in general, if you want to be fast you'll want to work on seeing EOCross in inspection consistently and having good fingertricks. The second is best done by drilling algs. You should probably start with PLL (seeing as it comes up 1/5 solves compared to the 2/15 of the rest of the TTLL steps and you also probably know it), drilling the algs every day.
Another thing, as you've acknowledged, ZBLL is better, but you're still in a good position to move to C++ when you finish CT. Would be cool to see how that works out. Good luck!
View attachment 14708

Thanks for the support! I considered starting drilling algs because I already know my fingertricks are god awful, I'll implement that into my routine tomorrow. As for C++... maybe. I'm not sure if I want to learn that many more algs, though I probably will do it at some point.
 

ZF slow

Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2018
Messages
161
Location
an unknown basement
YouTube
Visit Channel
I haven't been posting here much because I haven't actually been focusing on cubing much, with other hobbies taking priority.

Well today I got a new pb ao50, 100, 200, 500, 1000.
ao50 - 16.30
ao100 - 16.51
ao200 - 16.75
ao500 - 17.07
ao1000 - 17.22

I still make a lot of fundamental issues, recog mistakes and bad lookahead etc. I seem to be allergic to actually planning full eocross instead of just tracking.
 

PapaSmurf

Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2018
Messages
942
WCA
2016TUDO02
YouTube
Visit Channel
I haven't been posting here much because I haven't actually been focusing on cubing much, with other hobbies taking priority.

Well today I got a new pb ao50, 100, 200, 500, 1000.
ao50 - 16.30
ao100 - 16.51
ao200 - 16.75
ao500 - 17.07
ao1000 - 17.22

I still make a lot of fundamental issues, recog mistakes and bad lookahead etc. I seem to be allergic to actually planning full eocross instead of just tracking.

Nice going! And keep on pushing through the pain of EOCross - it's a lot better on the other side.
 

OreKehStrah

Member
Joined
May 24, 2019
Messages
621
I haven't been posting here much because I haven't actually been focusing on cubing much, with other hobbies taking priority.

Well today I got a new pb ao50, 100, 200, 500, 1000.
ao50 - 16.30
ao100 - 16.51
ao200 - 16.75
ao500 - 17.07
ao1000 - 17.22

I still make a lot of fundamental issues, recog mistakes and bad lookahead etc. I seem to be allergic to actually planning full eocross instead of just tracking.
Try planning just EOLine or EOArrow first until you can do that without issue. Then add another cross piece until you plan the whole EOCross
 

PapaSmurf

Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2018
Messages
942
WCA
2016TUDO02
YouTube
Visit Channel
But I'm faster with ZZ-A than CT. Therefore...:p
But if you go just on stats, ZZ-A is more efficient (by about 4 moves) and is (more) slot neutral. CT can be made better though via C++.
 

OreKehStrah

Member
Joined
May 24, 2019
Messages
621
Chris Tran said somewhere on the forums that he is equally fast with ZZ-A and ZZ-CT
That’s not really the most useful statement to make a point though. He’s not the fastest ZZ user so it’s a lot easier to say they are about the same when you’re not averaging at the highest levels for ZZ. It would be similar to someone who averages 45 seconds with both CFOP and Waterman for example. That doesn’t automatically make Waterman good because the average the same with it as the “good” method CFOP.
 

ZF slow

Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2018
Messages
161
Location
an unknown basement
YouTube
Visit Channel
Sitrep: My averages are mostly sub-17, though not pure sub-17 in the slightest. My solves vary quite a bit, and single could be anywhere between 15 and 18, though 16 is the most common. right now my ao500 is 16.92, and has been slowly dropping consistently. ao1k is has also been consistently dropping, but is still up at 17.15.
 

ZF slow

Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2018
Messages
161
Location
an unknown basement
YouTube
Visit Channel
Pog update: PB everything except for single and ao12. new set of shiny PBs looks like this:
5 - 13.72
25 - 15.73
50 - 16.07
100 - 16.26
200 - 16.62
500 - 16.75
1000 - 17.07

real shame I couldn't get the ao1000 below 17, but I have no doubt I can do it tomorrow. Guess I can finally say i'm sub-17. Right now i have my eyes set on sub-15, because that seems fast.
 

ZF slow

Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2018
Messages
161
Location
an unknown basement
YouTube
Visit Channel
Haven't cubed consistently, life is being a bit hard. But I managed to get my ao1000 below 17. In fact, I pushed it down to 16.95. I also got a new pb for CT, 10.99. Not my overall pb as that pb was ocll pll, but I'm closer to a sub-10 with CT. Right now my ao100 is 16.08, so I wanna get that down to sub-16. after that my ao200, as it's at 16.28.

I've been planning eocross more and more, and my f2l is getting nicer. I plan on drilling TTLL now, as I've had a few 15 and 16's where I finish F2L and TSLE at 11, and my TTLL really shouldn't take that long
 

OreKehStrah

Member
Joined
May 24, 2019
Messages
621
Haven't cubed consistently, life is being a bit hard. But I managed to get my ao1000 below 17. In fact, I pushed it down to 16.95. I also got a new pb for CT, 10.99. Not my overall pb as that pb was ocll pll, but I'm closer to a sub-10 with CT. Right now my ao100 is 16.08, so I wanna get that down to sub-16. after that my ao200, as it's at 16.28.

I've been planning eocross more and more, and my f2l is getting nicer. I plan on drilling TTLL now, as I've had a few 15 and 16's where I finish F2L and TSLE at 11, and my TTLL really shouldn't take that long
That’s in part due to how bad some of the TTLL algs are. I’m going to gen new TTLL algs once I finish working on Tripod LL so I’ll share the new TTLLs if I find any that are good.
 

ZF slow

Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2018
Messages
161
Location
an unknown basement
YouTube
Visit Channel
That’s in part due to how bad some of the TTLL algs are. I’m going to gen new TTLL algs once I finish working on Tripod LL so I’ll share the new TTLLs if I find any that are good.
Thanks! We already have quite a bit of work that's been going on for TTLL (Luema experimenting with individual cases, Pi making an entire sheet, Noobcuber working on front opp) but no doubt you'll find some useful stuff. It'll be nice to have better algs, despite having to actually learn the algs
 
Top