• Welcome to the Speedsolving.com, home of the web's largest puzzle community!
    You are currently viewing our forum as a guest which gives you limited access to join discussions and access our other features.

    Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community of 35,000+ people from around the world today!

    If you are already a member, simply login to hide this message and begin participating in the community!

ZBLL recognition. 2sided vs. 4sided

FJT97

Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2013
Messages
426
WCA
2012THIE01
Hi

I'm in the process of learning ZBLL. I got my inspiration from a youtube channel with the name "zzmethod". That guy taught the algs with 2 sided recognition. I did never lern any algs 2 sided before, and I'm not sure, if the 2 sided recognition is the better option. 2 sided recognition can be really confusing, cause there so many cases which look quiet similar. But i could imagine, that, once you master it, it is better, since you don't have to waste time looking around the cube. The question is if its worth the afford of learning it.
What do you think?
 

CubingGenius

Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2016
Messages
238
Hi

I'm in the process of learning ZBLL. I got my inspiration from a youtube channel with the name "zzmethod". That guy taught the algs with 2 sided recognition. I did never lern any algs 2 sided before, and I'm not sure, if the 2 sided recognition is the better option. 2 sided recognition can be really confusing, cause there so many cases which look quiet similar. But i could imagine, that, once you master it, it is better, since you don't have to waste time looking around the cube. The question is if its worth the afford of learning it.
What do you think?
Definitely learn two-sided recognition. It is a lot better to know for speedsolving.

All you need to do is recognise the COLL, then compare the FU and RU edges to the RUF corner's stickers with same colour and opposite colour relations. It takes a bit of practice to get use to, but it soon becomes very quick to recognise.
 

FJT97

Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2013
Messages
426
WCA
2012THIE01
Hmmm.

The problem there is, that i mix all cases up. and I'm really slow learning new cases, cause i mix everything up...
 

CubingGenius

Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2016
Messages
238
Hmmm.

The problem there is, that i mix all cases up. and I'm really slow learning new cases, cause i mix everything up...
I believe the YouTube channel you talked about teaches recognition as well.

Usually, it takes a long time to learn algorithms and recognise the cases at the start.

What I suggest you do is learn a COLL subset and then use this. You can change the scramble type to 3x3 subsets and then custom scramble in the top left hand corner. After that, you can paste in a custom scramble in the white scape at the top. You will then get scrambles to drill that specific COLL subset.

If you want, you can give me your recognition angles for ZBLLs and I can give you all the custom scrambles to set up those cases.

Don't worry if it takes a long time to get use to at the start. After learning my first OCLL subset, it became much faster and easier. It just takes time and practice to get use to it.
 

FJT97

Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2013
Messages
426
WCA
2012THIE01
I believe the YouTube channel you talked about teaches recognition as well.

Usually, it takes a long time to learn algorithms and recognise the cases at the start.

What I suggest you do is learn a COLL subset and then use this. You can change the scramble type to 3x3 subsets and then custom scramble in the top left hand corner. After that, you can paste in a custom scramble in the white scape at the top. You will then get scrambles to drill that specific COLL subset.

If you want, you can give me your recognition angles for ZBLLs and I can give you all the custom scrambles to set up those cases.

Don't worry if it takes a long time to get use to at the start. After learning my first OCLL subset, it became much faster and easier. It just takes time and practice to get use to it.

Wow, this is cool!
I'll send you a PM
 

4Chan

Premium Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2008
Messages
2,984
Location
Lumbridge
YouTube
boxxybabee
No, you need to learn 4 sided recognition.

You need to learn the block patterns if you want to git gud
This cuts down AUF, and once you see blocks, you can start to recog during last pair.
 
D

Daniel Lin

Guest
No, you need to learn 4 sided recognition.

You need to learn the block patterns if you want to git gud
This cuts down AUF, and once you see blocks, you can start to recog during last pair.
Can you really reco from last pair? That's kinda crazy
 

FJT97

Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2013
Messages
426
WCA
2012THIE01
No, you need to learn 4 sided recognition.

You need to learn the block patterns if you want to git gud
This cuts down AUF, and once you see blocks, you can start to recog during last pair.
Well, regoc during f2l is for those who wanna get sub 5 global :D

But anyway, do you say, that you wanna recognize the cases by the blocks only or like 2 sided for all 4 sides? Cause if you recognize by the blocks only, you will have kinda huge pauses to see the block, and another use if you don't even have a block, won't you?
 

4Chan

Premium Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2008
Messages
2,984
Location
Lumbridge
YouTube
boxxybabee
There is no extra pause because absence of blocks will also tell you what case it is.

So for a given subset, one or two cases won't have blocks, so when you don't see blocks, you will think to which cases don't have an obvious block, and you will recognize the casee.

Also, when the case is already correct without an AUF, then I just recognize from the two visible sides.
I think it's good to be good at different recognition skills, so that when they are ingrained, you can recognise the cases easily.
So that a case which is difficult to recognise with Baum-Harris can easily be recognized with blocks and vice versa.
 

Smiles

Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2012
Messages
575
YouTube
JPerm
Recognizing by blocks also makes for easier memorization, since you can mentally connect the beginning of the alg with the pattern you see; memorizing is less of a mental task that way.
 

CubingGenius

Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2016
Messages
238
No, you need to learn 4 sided recognition.

You need to learn the block patterns if you want to git gud
This cuts down AUF, and once you see blocks, you can start to recog during last pair.
Are you meaning recognising it from any angle without AUF, or having to AUF to work out the case? I'm understanding four-sided recognition as the latter option. If you are talking about the first, I think this one is fastest and I use this one.

By block patterns, I assume you mean AUFing to find blocks of piece? I don't think this is a very good idea for speedsolving, since it would take a long time to recognise the case and there would be a lot of cases without blocks.
 

Petro Leum

Member
Joined
May 3, 2012
Messages
794
Location
Germany
WCA
2012KALH01
i have feeling there are misunderstanding in this thread. i think whenever it is technically possible to recognise a case from seeing any two adjacent sides, you should learn how to do it.

PS: Is recognising ZBLL from last slot really thing? i can't imagine ever doing that. but then again i'm also **** at planning EOLine+1 in inspection, so what gives.
 

4Chan

Premium Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2008
Messages
2,984
Location
Lumbridge
YouTube
boxxybabee
Are you meaning recognising it from any angle without AUF, or having to AUF to work out the case? I'm understanding four-sided recognition as the latter option. If you are talking about the first, I think this one is fastest and I use this one.

By block patterns, I assume you mean AUFing to find blocks of piece? I don't think this is a very good idea for speedsolving, since it would take a long time to recognise the case and there would be a lot of cases without blocks.
Once you learn the block patterns, you recognize the alg without AUF.
That's why I said it cuts down on AUF.

i have feeling there are misunderstanding in this thread. i think whenever it is technically possible to recognise a case from seeing any two adjacent sides, you should learn how to do it.

PS: Is recognising ZBLL from last slot really thing? i can't imagine ever doing that. but then again i'm also **** at planning EOLine+1 in inspection, so what gives.
Hello Simon!

It's often not possible to see the whole thing easily, but there are lots of hints in the LL during the execution of the last slot pair. So when you do the last slot, there's usually some pieces on the top that give partial information, and that narrows down the cases which can occur.

Certain orientations and blocks also describe what cases can pop up, so it definitely helps in recog!
 
Top