[Help Thread] ZBLL discussion

[abunickabhi]

ZBLL CN is not that hard. It does take a lot of work to get flawless recognition though. I am not the right person to have an opinion as I have given up on both full ZBLL and full CN, U' R' F2 E' F2 R S' U S R E R'.

 

[Bl4nk5]

So I saw somewhere, that there is something known as Jason Baum Recognition for Colour Neutrality. I can't find anything about it. I also want to see if it is rather popular and if I am just living under a rock.
Anyone?

 

[Brest]

So I saw somewhere, that there is something known as Jason Baum Recognition for Colour Neutrality. I can't find anything about it. I also want to see if it is rather popular and if I am just living under a rock.
Anyone?

Check the wiki: https://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/Jason_Baum
find an external archive link: https://web.archive.org/web/20100430213941/http://jmbaum.110mb.com/zbll.htm

 

[GenTheSnail]

So I saw somewhere, that there is something known as Jason Baum Recognition for Colour Neutrality. I can't find anything about it. I also want to see if it is rather popular and if I am just living under a rock.
Anyone?

Recognition for ZBLL is going to be the same for all colors. You never go based on a straight color, but rather the relationship of colors to each other along the y-axis.

For example, if you're a white bottom solver, then yellow is your OCLL color, and red and green are adjacent colors. However, if you're color neutral and have orange on bottom for a solve, then red and green aren't going to be adjacent colors because red is going to be your OCLL colour, and green and yellow are going to be adjacent colors.

This ZBLL doc has a preamble before it lists algs (the bottom paragraph in italics on page 3) where it describes Baum-Harris ZBLL recognition. That's how I learned it.

 

[Checkmate22]

Is it worth it to learn the last two T case sets?
They all feel the same and I'm kind of intimidated by the similarity of each alg.

 

[PetrusQuber]

I am planning on learning one OCLL subset of ZBLL. I’ve heard that the T, U, and L subsets are the most recommended sets to learn. But out of those three which one is the most useful? By that I mean which ZBLL subset will save the most time over OCLL -> PLL?

There’s no properly set answer, all come up as many times as the other and I guess you’ll just have to skim the algorithms to see

Is it worth it to learn the last two T case sets?
They all feel the same and I'm kind of intimidated by the similarity of each alg.

For ZBLL?

 

[Checkmate22]

There’s no properly set answer, all come up as many times as the other and I guess you’ll just have to skim the algorithms to see

For ZBLL?

This is the ZBLL help thread is it not?

 

[PetrusQuber]

This is the ZBLL help thread is it not?

Yeah, why not (for the original question)

 

[xyzzy]

Is it worth it to learn the last two T case sets?
They all feel the same and I'm kind of intimidated by the similarity of each alg.

Yes, but you should also keep in mind that I have no idea which algs you mean exactly by "the last two T case sets". There's no standardised ordering of the subsets; which ones you learn first or learn last are up to you, and we won't have that information if you don't tell us.

For example, AlgDb and SCDB both group the T ZBLLs by corner permutation (i.e. grouped by CLL case), with the diag CP and the solved CP subsets as the last two ones, while if you look at Juju ZBLL, that has solved CP and diag CP at the top.

 

[Checkmate22]

Yes, but you should also keep in mind that I have no idea which algs you mean exactly by "the last two T case sets". There's no standardised ordering of the subsets; which ones you learn first or learn last are up to you, and we won't have that information if you don't tell us.

For example, AlgDb and SCDB both group the T ZBLLs by corner permutation (i.e. grouped by CLL case), with the diag CP and the solved CP subsets as the last two ones, while if you look at Juju ZBLL, that has solved CP and diag CP at the top.

My bad!
I thought that the last two T cases were always the diagonal CP ones!

Those are the sets I am referring to.

 

[thelargeman2048]

ive heard that some of the ZBLL cases are worth learning but not sure which ones. also wouldnt it be easier to do EO then use COLL if youre using ZBLL anyway. someone please explain.
edit COLL

 

[abunickabhi]

CLL set exists for 2x2. The equivalent is COLL for the 3x3. You can start with COLL first, and after you are done with the 50ish cases, your corner recognition will be better, and then you can start doing ZBLL.

My order of learning ZBLL is first T,U,L, Pi, anti-sune and sune.

 

[AlgoCuber]

the 50ish cases

Actually 42 cases

 

[abunickabhi]

Actually 42 cases

Yeah 42 cases, thanks for being precise.

 

[thelargeman2048]

i already did 2x2 ortega so my recog. is good enough but is there a speed diffrence in using EO with COLL than ZBLL?

 

[OreKehStrah]

i already did 2x2 ortega so my recog. is good enough but is there a speed diffrence in using EO with COLL than ZBLL?

What do you mean by EO with COLL?

 

[thelargeman2048]

lIke in 2 look OLL . Dot line & L

 

[OreKehStrah]

lIke in 2 look OLL . Dot line & L

You know that EO-COLL isn't the end of a solve like ZBLL right? You still have to do EPLL 11/12 solves. So yes there is a huge difference between forcing EO, doing COLL, and then EPLL vs just ZBLL.

 

[thelargeman2048]

thx but which ZBLL subset should I learn first 2nd ect and which aren't worth learning

 

[OreKehStrah]

thx but which ZBLL subset should I learn first 2nd ect and which aren't worth learning

Do you know full OLL PLL? If not you don't need to even think about ZB for now. If so, you probably should work on cross+1 and F2L. But if you are sure you wanna spend time on ZBLL learn in this order: (Either T then U or U then T), L, 2GLL H, 2GLL Pi, Diag H, and Diag Pi. Maybe 2GLL S/AS.