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Wondering what the best method for my PERSONAL improvement would be

Murderbydeath

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Dec 23, 2011
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I guess I should start out with an introduction. I've been "cubing" for about 3 years, off and on. I can solve the cube in a few different ways, including the "booklet" or "Dan Brown" way of doing it. I can solve F2L intuitively. I can solve the last layer a couple of different ways. The way I am doing it now is currently:

Intuitive F2L (12 or less moves for cross is my goal, usually easily met, but hardly ever under 8), LL cross, orient LL corners, permute LL edges, orient LL edges with a somewhat inefficient algorithm (it's an algorithm that swaps the 3 unsolved edges clockwise or counter-clockwise, similar to the Ub and Ua Fridrich PLLs). I average about 80 seconds with this method, but have solved a couple of times under a minute with no PLL skip or anything like that.

My question is basically this: based on how I already solve the cube, what would be the best way for me to learn Fridrich OLL/PLLs, you think? My goal is pretty easy (sub 30), and I think simply by learning OLL/PLL, I could probably attain this goal, even on a poopy store bought Rubik's cube.

Edit: I feel I should explain how I do the last layer in more detail. Basically I do a 4 look OLL and then I have one of two PLL cases: either I need to swap the edges counter clockwise or clockwise. Pretty simple. The OLL steps are as follow: form LL cross, orient LL corners, orient the rest of the LL. Orienting the rest of the LL can take up to 2 algorithms after the corners are oriented. I'm looking for one of two cases after orienting the corners, which are solvable, depending on the case, with either of these algorithms: R U R' U R U2 R' or R' U' R U' R' U2 R U2. After that's all done, the only thing that should remain to solve is putting the edges in their proper places. This may require one or two algorithms, depending on if all 4 edges are incorrectly placed. Usually one is already solved, meaning they need to be shifted either clockwise or counter clockwise, which I use one of these two algorithms for: R2 U F B' R2 B F' U R2 or R2 U' F B' R2 B F' U' R2
 
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Ezy Ryder

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What's the difference between LL cross and orienting LL edges?
First learn "simplified" Fridrich, (EO, CO, PLL). That start learning various OLL cases. Also try to practice cross (1-look) and definitely Sub-9 moves. I get Sup-8 cross'es very rarely, and if I do one, it's probably because it's a XCross.
Ps.: You can find a lot of those algorithms in the Wiki.
 
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Murderbydeath

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What's the difference between LL cross and orienting LL edges?
First learn "simplified" Fridrich, (EO, CO, PLL). That start learning various OLL cases. Also try to practice cross (1-look) and definitely Sub-9 moves. I get Sup-8 cross'es very rarely, and if I do one, it's probably because it's a XCross.
Ps.: You can find a lot of those algorithms in the Wiki.

Thanks. I don't know anything about EO, CO, etc. I was thinking about learning 2 look OLL and just learning the Fridrich PLLs, but if there's an easier, more gradual way to work up to it, that would be great. Also, I edited the OP to include more information about what I mean about how I solve the last layer. I may have used the words "orient" and "permute" incorrectly.

The cross should be done in about 7-8 moves, work on that and F2L requires a lot of practice. Find algorithms for F2L cases that you use too many moves on and always look ahead. These are just general tips I can give you as I'm not very fast either. You should check out this page: http://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/Road_to_Sub-15_Second_Averages

I'm less concerned with my F2L than I am my OLL/PLL right now. It's where I lose most of my time, I think. I will check that page out though, as it looks like it will be helpful anyway!
 

Murderbydeath

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just check out badmephisto's youtube channel + website for beginner or 4 look LL
for a good start: start with the "how to become a speedcuber" video

Haha, it's funny that you mention this, as I'm staring at a printout of one of the incredibly useful .pdfs from badmephisto's site :p I'm just wondering what the most efficient way, based on how I already solve the cube, to memorize/learn the algorithms would be. Like if I should work up gradually to the full OLL/PLLs or learn some simpler methods first.
 

HelpCube

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You should be much more concerned with your F2L than your last layer. No need to learn any F2L algorithms yet, but intuitive F2L takes a LOT of practice to get down fast. But for your last layer, definitely learn full PLL. That should help with your times, and 2-look OLL aswell. You don't need to learn full OLL for a while though, I average 17ish but I don't know full OLL.

EDIT: 21 Algs might seem like a lot to memorize, but just force yourself to learn one every day and you'll be done in a month.
 

Murderbydeath

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You should be much more concerned with your F2L than your last layer. No need to learn any F2L algorithms yet, but intuitive F2L takes a LOT of practice to get down fast. But for your last layer, definitely learn full PLL. That should help with your times, and 2-look OLL aswell. You don't need to learn full OLL for a while though, I average 17ish but I don't know full OLL.

Thanks, pretty much confirms my current plan already :p Full OLL seems a bit hard and ridiculous. Any tips on learning full PLL efficiently? Like maybe learning all the edge only or corner only cases first? Or maybe learning all algs with common moves first? Something like that? They seem tough to memorize, as a lot of them are quite different, though some of them do include the same sequences of moves. I find perms like E and Y particularly hard. Ironically, I had no trouble memorizing the parity algorithms for the 4x4x4 :S
 

Cubenovice

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really: watch the videos by badmephistio first; it explains the steps you want to take progressively

on his site is a pdf with the so called 2-look PLL: that's where you want to start with your LL improvement
 

5BLD

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For learning PLL more efficiently, learn the MU ones first all in one go, they are short. Then learn the Gs as they are the hardest. Then learn the rest, set by set.

But really, don't worry about your LL. Seriously. Get working on your F2L. For Last Layer just learn 4LLL, you already seem to be doing something like that, unless you really want to learn 3LLL, then go ahead.

But remember, F2L is much much more important. My friend who I've been teaching (and refused to learn 4LLL) is sub30 with beginner last layer, because he has a strong F2L technique. Ya know, froof to EO, Then perm corners, then perm edges, then RDRDx1000 or whatev.
 

TheZenith27

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Learn T, Y, U, Z, and H PLLs first. Use T or Y PLL for corners and U, Z, and H for edges.
Learn all the corner OLLs. Use beginner method to orient the LL edges, the orient the rest with the corner OLLs.
Learn the rest of the PLLs.
Learn the rest of the OLLs.
Of course: Do a lot of solves every day to practice F2L.

I started with beginner method and used that for 2 years. I learned CFOP over the course of the last 6 months and I average sub-17.

Good luck! ;)
 

asportking

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If you work on F2L (I assume you're using intuitive F2L), make sure to go through every case you get and try to find an optimal solution to them, preferably no more than 8-9 moves. You can look up algorithms for F2L cases if you get stuck. Other than that, go slow and lookahead.
 

Murderbydeath

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Just wanted to show once more my improvements before I stop bumping this thread forever lol: http://pastebin.com/97Gg8HSp

I'll be sure to tell everyone over 1 min to practice F2L from now on lol. Obviously it helps a lot! My F2L still takes like 30-45 secs though :-/
 

Murderbydeath

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Dec 23, 2011
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Haha wow, I was really hard on myself. I did eventually learn CFOP and now my average is around 30-32 seconds, but I've hit another wall there. I suspect there is much improvement to be made in F2L still. I don't cube a ton (over the last 4 years, I usually pick it up seriously for about a month out of the year and then try again next year), but I want to at least get a sub 30 average. Using a lubeless Dayan ZhanChi with the torpedoes in. It catches on corners here and there, but it should be fine for getting sub 30 (I've heard of people getting sub 30 on a Rubik's brand out of the box, which is impressive as all hell to me).

For F2L, I haven't bothered learning any of the optimal algorithms for the tougher cases, though I'm thinking about doing so. I've cut down on cube rotations quite a bit, and I use a d or d' turn instead of re-gripping whenever possible. I still haven't learned full OLL, but I don't think that's really necessary for sub 30. I've learned a few of the easier cases (outside of the 2 look OLL cases), but not even a dent in it. Full PLL, of course.

I guess I want to know what some of your advanced, non intuitive tips for F2L might be, if any. I've seen some optimal algos that use D turns and slices and stuff and I definitely don't do that in my intuitive solves.

tl;dr: help me break the 30s average wall!
 

DELToS

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Haha wow, I was really hard on myself. I did eventually learn CFOP and now my average is around 30-32 seconds, but I've hit another wall there. I suspect there is much improvement to be made in F2L still. I don't cube a ton (over the last 4 years, I usually pick it up seriously for about a month out of the year and then try again next year), but I want to at least get a sub 30 average. Using a lubeless Dayan ZhanChi with the torpedoes in. It catches on corners here and there, but it should be fine for getting sub 30 (I've heard of people getting sub 30 on a Rubik's brand out of the box, which is impressive as all hell to me).

For F2L, I haven't bothered learning any of the optimal algorithms for the tougher cases, though I'm thinking about doing so. I've cut down on cube rotations quite a bit, and I use a d or d' turn instead of re-gripping whenever possible. I still haven't learned full OLL, but I don't think that's really necessary for sub 30. I've learned a few of the easier cases (outside of the 2 look OLL cases), but not even a dent in it. Full PLL, of course.

I guess I want to know what some of your advanced, non intuitive tips for F2L might be, if any. I've seen some optimal algos that use D turns and slices and stuff and I definitely don't do that in my intuitive solves.

tl;dr: help me break the 30s average wall!

For me, to break that 30 second barrier I just had to learn and use full PLL
 
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