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Who doesn't really know what they are doing?

jdh3000

Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2017
Messages
132
This is just out of curiosity, but who doesn't really know what the algorithms are doing?

I'll admit it, for the most part, I really don't know. I never really look to where each piece is being carried, at any of the movements, apart from maybe the first turn or so.. the alg starts, it ends and it's done.

I mean I have a vague idea of certain movements, but I really don't know most of what is happening. I'm mainly talking about oll/pll algs, not f2l. The few I use on that are short enough that I know what they are doing.

I realize most of you know what's going on, but some of us don't, and many like me have no real concern with it.
I'm sure it helps immensely in determining skip cases and other techniques, but I never really felt like I needed to know.

My car runs, I know basic maintenance, but I don't have to know all of the engines workings to be able to operate it.

If one algorithm isn't really working for me, I find another one, but can't dissect one to figure out a new one.

I average about 18 seconds with cfop on 3x3. I might would make me better to know, but does not knowing make me less of a speed solver? I feel I could be faster if I did some things, like peactice better look ahead, maybe learn better finger tricks, but knowing doesn't seem to be an issue, but I could be wrong.

Maybe it's blissful ignorance, but I enjoy cubing. I know I rode in on someone else's work to get here.. Just wondering if I'm alone in this.
 

OreKehStrah

Member
Joined
May 24, 2019
Messages
574
This is just out of curiosity, but who doesn't really know what the algorithms are doing?

I'll admit it, for the most part, I really don't know. I never really look to where each piece is being carried, at any of the movements, apart from maybe the first turn or so.. the alg starts, it ends and it's done.

I mean I have a vague idea of certain movements, but I really don't know most of what is happening. I'm mainly talking about oll/pll algs, not f2l. The few I use on that are short enough that I know what they are doing.

I realize most of you know what's going on, but some of us don't, and many like me have no real concern with it.
I'm sure it helps immensely in determining skip cases and other techniques, but I never really felt like I needed to know.

My car runs, I know basic maintenance, but I don't have to know all of the engines workings to be able to operate it.

If one algorithm isn't really working for me, I find another one, but can't dissect one to figure out a new one.

I average about 18 seconds with cfop on 3x3. I might would make me better to know, but does not knowing make me less of a speed solver? I feel I could be faster if I did some things, like peactice better look ahead, maybe learn better finger tricks, but knowing doesn't seem to be an issue, but I could be wrong.

Maybe it's blissful ignorance, but I enjoy cubing. I know I rode in on someone else's work to get here.. Just wondering if I'm alone in this.
No, not knowing doesn't make you any less of a speedsolver. From my viewpoint, you are simply doing your job. One of the things I've started doing recently is working on alg sets that need work, like TTLL for example. I don't really care if people understand how all the algs work because for 99% of people, they don't care and don't really need to know for speedsolving. I just want good algs for myself, and for others to be able to benefit from as well. So don't worry about whether or not you need to understand the algs. Just appreciate the fact you are benefiting from a predecessor's work. I'm sure they'd be glad to know their work has helped others as well!
 

qwr

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Joined
Jul 24, 2019
Messages
2,081
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I understand most of F2L because there is some room for improvisation, but I don't think you'll get benefit from understanding how pieces are moved around in OLL and PLL, maybe for some small things that are just memorized like AUF and EO.
 

jdh3000

Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2017
Messages
132
Most people learn the algs and don't bother figuring out the inner workings of them, myself included. Over time though, I got curious and started doing algs slowly to figure out what was going on. MU gen EPLLs and Jb perm were the easiest. Your post reminds me of this cubeorithms video (I hope it's the right one lul)
That video is exactly what I was thinking; these guys that put in the work, thanks to them I can be mistaken for knowing more than I actually do, by those who know nothing about it, lol!

Funny video, thanks for sharing!


No, not knowing doesn't make you any less of a speedsolver. From my viewpoint, you are simply doing your job. One of the things I've started doing recently is working on alg sets that need work, like TTLL for example. I don't really care if people understand how all the algs work because for 99% of people, they don't care and don't really need to know for speedsolving. I just want good algs for myself, and for others to be able to benefit from as well. So don't worry about whether or not you need to understand the algs. Just appreciate the fact you are benefiting from a predecessor's work. I'm sure they'd be glad to know their work has helped others as well!
I do appreciate all the work that goea into figuing all of these out algorithms, and those of you who continue to make better algs.

It's humbling just to be able to interpret in a few seconds the endless hours that went into all of this.

Thanks!

I understand most of F2L because there is some room for improvisation, but I don't think you'll get benefit from understanding how pieces are moved around in OLL and PLL, maybe for some small things that are just memorized like AUF and EO.
Though I do mostly intuitive f2l, I have come up with some different tricky ways to execute them and that becomes my algorithm... I'm sure I'm not the fist to find that, but it makes me feel like I accomplished something on my own.
 

Kaiju_cube

Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2021
Messages
114
I love commutators, it's my favorite part of big cubes is using them on the last 2 centers. There's something very fun and satisfying about them.
 

xyzzy

Member
Joined
Dec 24, 2015
Messages
2,284
(J Perm video "How Algorithms ACTUALLY Work on the Rubik's Cube")
"in cubing we like to use big words to impress people"
It took until now for a famous cuber to finally say out loud what most people had been too shy to admit, lol.

Anyway, it goes without saying that J Perm has produced yet another very good video. I'd comment more about it, but there isn't much I can say that isn't already covered in the video itself. Break-and-repair types of algs don't really lend themselves to "explanations"; alg combos sometimes do, but may require some out-of-the-box thinking and/or group theory.
 

qwr

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Jul 24, 2019
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I learned after one abstract algebra class that the human mind is not designed for group theory. (It's designed for things like counting apples and coordinating muscles)
 

Gerry

Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2021
Messages
66
It depends on how an alg is taught. Some just tell you if the cube looks like this, do these moves. Then I don't know.

However some videos teach a more step by step approach. Move the piece you need out of the way, set it up, then move it in. That add a little more understanding.
 

jdh3000

Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2017
Messages
132
Someone can be a whiz at using a computer program without really understanding how it works. It doesn't mean that person is just mimicking behavior to get a result. It takes intelligence, creativity and perseverance to discover new ways to utilize what is there, leaning how to do it faster and more efficiently.

I really Dylan's videos... he helped me out personally when I started bld.

He's a great guy with abilities that seem to have no limits, and it's very humbling to hear him say that he doesn't know something... Many who are making cubing videos could learn something from his humility.
 

LukasCubes

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Aug 10, 2020
Messages
479
Location
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i look mainly at the fingertricks and how to grip the cube when doing the algs and thats the easiest way in my opinion.
 
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