• Welcome to the Speedsolving.com, home of the web's largest puzzle community!
    You are currently viewing our forum as a guest which gives you limited access to join discussions and access our other features.

    Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community of 40,000+ people from around the world today!

    If you are already a member, simply login to hide this message and begin participating in the community!

Which Square-1 Method?

Ickathu

Member
Joined
May 20, 2011
Messages
1,406
Location
Virginia
WCA
2011MERT03
YouTube
Visit Channel
Right now I average about 1:30 on square-1. I know, I'm not very good, but that's why I'm here.
ATM, here is my solving process: Cube, Orient Corners, Orient Edges, Permute Corners on 1 layer, solve edges on that layer, flip, permute corners on 2nd layer, solve edges on second layer.
It's a pretty slow way of solving the cube. I have 2 methods in mind, and I want you guys to tell me which I should pick.

The first method would go like this: Cube, Orient Corners, Orient Edges, Permute 1 layer, permute second layer.
If I do this, could you guys link me to a PLL page?

The second method is like this: Cube, Orient Corners, Orient Edges, Permute Corners, permute edges.

I've looked, and the second method requires a HUGE number of algorithms for all the edge permutations. I think it was somewhere around 50, but I'm not quite sure. Plus, the algs are all really long looking. The first method wouldn't require nearly as many algs, and I think recognition would be easier. I'm already starting to learn algs for orienting edges, because that slows me down a lot.
Also, do you guys have any tips for getting it into cube form? I use the beginners method of placing all the edges next to each other and then breaking them apart step by step from there. I would like to learn some algorithms for certain patterns that come up often, but I can't find any site that lists algorithms for that. Getting it to a cube usually takes ~30 seconds for me.
 

aronpm

Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2009
Messages
2,010
Learn the second method. You don't need to learn all the edge permutations; you can just start by learning adj-adj and adj parity. Other ones are easy to learn and help a lot, like opp-opp and H/Z perms. Don't learn the edge permutations that affect parity, learn CP parity instead, which fixes the parity error while you permute corners.

David Woner has a good video on Youtube about cubeshape:
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Jokerman5656

Catch Me If You Can
Joined
Mar 15, 2009
Messages
576
Location
Minnesota
WCA
2009BRAI01
YouTube
Visit Channel
ohh where to start...
Definitely go with the second method if you actually want to get fast at this. Trust me doing top then flipping is horrid.

Cube shape: for your speed keep using the edge pairing method for now until you fully grasp the concept of it. Once you are about a minute or less and can get cubeshape in a fair amount of time (10-15 max) then i would suggest taking a look at a video by David Woner a.k.a Vault312. *Link from Aron* . That will show you about the Kite-Scallop method and a lot of cubeshapes that are <4 twist's or so.

I also noticed that you probably already know how to do CO and EO fairly decently (or at least will eventually considering CO is simple and EO is just algs) so that isn't too much of a worry.

That takes me to CP and EP. I myself do CP Parity, which is, while doing CP you have 2 algs instead of the normal one alg. One of these algs is for when you don't have parity and one is for when you do. Basically to figure out if you have parity you look at both layers and determine if the layer is possible to have that case on a 3x3. if one layer has parity then you have parity for sure and will do the second set of algs for CP. If none or both have parity on them it is determined to not have parity. By doing the corners in this way you are able to cut the amount of EP's virtually in half. I have a page with about 45 algs you'll need to fully do EP in one step with this method but i only know about 20-25 and i average about 25 once warmed up.

Let me know if i missed anything you need help with.


EDIT: Aron ninja'd me but i said more so read what you want. Stupid Aron
 
Last edited:

danthecuber

Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2011
Messages
771
Location
College Park, MD
WCA
2011SELZ01
YouTube
Visit Channel
In the order that you execute them:
co is intuitive
eo algs:
opp-opp “M2” (1,0)/(-1,-1)
adj-adj (1,0)/(-3,0)/(-1,-1)/(4,1)/ UL-DR
single swap (1,0)/(3,0)/(3,0)/(-1,-1)/(-2,1)/(-3,0)/ UR-DB
cp and ep algs road to sub 20 parity recognition
Really the only edge permutations you need to memorize is the M perm, H perm, 3 cycle both directions for one layer, and 3 cycle both directions for both layers, and 2 edges swapped on both layers (not across from each other, but perpendicular).

Really the only edge permutatios you need to memorize are adj-adj and a parity, and I don't know what an M perm is.
 
Last edited:

TheMachanga

Member
Joined
Jun 26, 2009
Messages
1,441
Location
Chicago, Illinois
WCA
2010LECH01
YouTube
Visit Channel
Advanced cubeshape tutorial: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAr0b3ffI1k
That helped me a lot.

Definitely go with the second method. Really the only edge permutations you need to memorize is the M perm, H perm, 3 cycle both directions for one layer, and 3 cycle both directions for both layers, and 2 edges swapped on both layers (not across from each other, but perpendicular).

On a 3x3, we have: M2. On square one, M2 is (1,0)/(-1, -1)/(0,1). That is very important to know.

H perm on square 1, with the alg as M2: M2 (-3,0) M2 (6,0) M2 (-3,0)

Let (-3,0) be U' and (3,0) be U.

Z perm: M2 U' M2 U M2

3 cycles on single layer you just memorize, however, they're easy. Square 1 algs look long because each move requires 2 numbers and a slash, instead of just a letter, don't be scared.

You also need to know (VERY IMPORTANT) (1,0)/(3,0)/(-1,-1)/(-2,1)/(-1,0). There's an M2 in the middle of that.

For 3 cycles on double layers, you don't have to look at which direction they go in. Just make sure the solved bar on both layers are on you're left or right (doesn't matter), then do M2, then U2 then M2 again. Then set it up to solve it with the alg you learned above. If you have anything else but those cases, like an h perm on one layer and a 3 cycle on the other, then solve them separately for now. Once you're ready, you can learn those. You don't have to learn all the edge permutations.
 
Last edited:

Jokerman5656

Catch Me If You Can
Joined
Mar 15, 2009
Messages
576
Location
Minnesota
WCA
2009BRAI01
YouTube
Visit Channel
M perm on square 1, with the alg as M2: M2 (-3,0) M2 (6,0) M2 (-3,0)

Z perm: M2 U' M2

I think you mean H, not M

and

Z perm: M2 U' M2 U M2

'Summary of all your mess up's': wtf is an M perm, to get about 30 sec you don't need all those algs, it's adjacent and not perpendicular, and that is a crappy way of doing double U perms (you probably call them K perm by seeing what you call everything else). -fin-
 
Last edited:

Ickathu

Member
Joined
May 20, 2011
Messages
1,406
Location
Virginia
WCA
2011MERT03
YouTube
Visit Channel
That takes me to CP and EP. I myself do CP Parity, which is, while doing CP you have 2 algs instead of the normal one alg. One of these algs is for when you don't have parity and one is for when you do. Basically to figure out if you have parity you look at both layers and determine if the layer is possible to have that case on a 3x3. if one layer has parity then you have parity for sure and will do the second set of algs for CP. If none or both have parity on them it is determined to not have parity. By doing the corners in this way you are able to cut the amount of EP's virtually in half. I have a page with about 45 algs you'll need to fully do EP in one step with this method but i only know about 20-25 and i average about 25 once warmed up.
Can you give me a link to a page with the CP Parity algorithms? I just finished memorizing the non-parity CP algs (I checked them all).
Sidenote: I hope that I get an Mf8 Sq-1 for my birthday in a couple weeks, because atm, my cubetwist pops on me all the time, and I've heard Mf8 rarely pops, so that should help me some - I don't have to be worried about pops when I go fast.
 

Mike Hughey

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Jun 7, 2007
Messages
11,305
Location
Indianapolis
WCA
2007HUGH01
SS Competition Results
YouTube
Visit Channel
Anyone using Baums' method?
I think the website is down right now though...

I used it for a while. It has two problems:
1. Recognition is slower than the usual methods.
2. Although there are fewer overall algorithms to memorize, you really need to memorize most of them to be very fast at all. At the least, you need to memorize everything but the with-parity PLLs. And it significantly hurts if you haven't memorized the parity algorithms as well.

I don't know of anyone who ever got very fast with it, and I had to give it up because it's too hard to maintain when you don't solve often enough to remember all the algorithms. Also, it wasn't very compatible with my BLD algorithms. :)
 
Top