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What is the next best method for speedsolving?

What abt petrus if it was more optimized
More optimised Petrus is pretty much APB, where APB starts very similar with a 2x2x3 block but instead of EO after 223 APB inserts the BR pair then does EO which decreases the edges that need to be looked at, as well as increasing ergonomics. Then LXS helps to increase the fluidity and ergonomics of APB even more, then they both end with ZB.
ZB, CFOP, and Roux have already proven to be viable methods for world-class solving. Now, what’s next? There are only few methods to my knowledge that have potential, but I think APB and ZZ are two methods that have potential. Leave your opinions below
I think that APB has a lot of potential, having a very similar move-count to ZB and Roux. Another method that might have potential is Epidote which is similar to APB except you insert the DFR corner while doing EO, this is EOLC, then E2CP where you solve the FR and DR edges while permuting corners which leaves you with 2GLL and it has a slightly lower move-count than APB, 46 compared to APB's 48. I think either method could be viable since the current top method ZB uses a good amount of algs so it leaves intuition at a minimum, and APB and Epidote are also very algorithmic methods aside form 223, which means that they can become very quick if every alg is used and it increases the TPS cap especially compared to a method like Roux where you are using almost entirely intuition which leaves room for pauses.
 
ZBRoux and advanced WaterRoux( FB, half SB and L5C in 1 look in inspection).

So now we're saying that FB > SS > L5C > L7E is WaterRoux? After having quickly changed the steps of WaterRoux before the official proposal, abandoning SS > L5C and not developing it.

Well that puts us in a weird situation for a few reasons. The first being that I put in the work - around 100 hours - to develop the algs for L5C, SL5C, and other ideas. The second complication is that Joseph Briggs and I decided to merge direct L5C into the method named 42 to create a clean classification. A final complication is that, before Briggs and I made the decision, I asked you in a private message what the method should be called. You said that the method has potential and provided a couple of name ideas, indicating that it is a separate method.
 
ZB, CFOP, and Roux have already proven to be viable methods for world-class solving. Now, what’s next? There are only few methods to my knowledge that have potential, but I think APB and ZZ are two methods that have potential. Leave your opinions below
I would like to mention that Mehta method still has potential to go mainstream and become good for OH and 2H yo.
 
More optimised Petrus is pretty much APB, where APB starts very similar with a 2x2x3 block but instead of EO after 223 APB inserts the BR pair then does EO which decreases the edges that need to be looked at, as well as increasing ergonomics. Then LXS helps to increase the fluidity and ergonomics of APB even more, then they both end with ZB.

I think that APB has a lot of potential, having a very similar move-count to ZB and Roux. Another method that might have potential is Epidote which is similar to APB except you insert the DFR corner while doing EO, this is EOLC, then E2CP where you solve the FR and DR edges while permuting corners which leaves you with 2GLL and it has a slightly lower move-count than APB, 46 compared to APB's 48. I think either method could be viable since the current top method ZB uses a good amount of algs so it leaves intuition at a minimum, and APB and Epidote are also very algorithmic methods aside form 223, which means that they can become very quick if every alg is used and it increases the TPS cap especially compared to a method like Roux where you are using almost entirely intuition which leaves room for pauses.
Epidote is actually less efficient by 1.25 moves

 
So now we're saying that FB > SS > L5C > L7E is WaterRoux? After having quickly changed the steps of WaterRoux before the official proposal, abandoning SS > L5C and not developing it.

Well that puts us in a weird situation for a few reasons. The first being that I put in the work - around 100 hours - to develop the algs for L5C, SL5C, and other ideas. The second complication is that Joseph Briggs and I decided to merge direct L5C into the method named 42 to create a clean classification. A final complication is that, before Briggs and I made the decision, I asked you in a private message what the method should be called. You said that the method has potential and provided a couple of name ideas, indicating that it is a separate method.

I couldn't care less what the method is called, rename it to whatever you want. I also don't care who invented whatever. I created LMCF but I don't care if you give me credit for it. Take all the credit yourself, I won't complain. The only thing that matters is we expand human potential in speed cubing. Who did what, when, and what it is called is irrelevant.
 
I couldn't care less what the method is called, rename it to whatever you want. I also don't care who invented whatever. I created LMCF but I don't care if you give me credit for it. Take all the credit yourself, I won't complain. The only thing that matters is we expand human potential in speed cubing. Who did what, when, and what it is called is irrelevant.

I'm the opposite in that I believe an individual deserves credit for their work and discoveries.

But to provide an answer for this thread, I agree with Fattah that what I've been calling a 42 method variant, FB > SS > L5C > L7E, is very interesting. At least from a move count and inspection perspective. There is potential to average 38 moves or fewer and it could be possible to inspect the majority of the solve. L7E still has issues though.
 
Just to correct the original post, I don't think ZB is any sort of top method, people use CFOP with edge control during F2L to force a ZBLL case. That is CFOP with ZBLL, not ZB. ZB would involve orienting edges right at the start and then doing ZZ-F2L. I don't think any top solver does that, in fact I think ZZ in general should be crossed off the list of top methods, as it has been years and years and years and there is no progress or rising stars using it, I don't think RUL is better than RUF for F2L TPS so you just end up wasting time on EO-Line with no gain at the end.
 
ZB would involve orienting edges right at the start and then doing ZZ-F2L.
If that is the case ZBLS wouldn't exist because there would be no reason to orient edges on the last pair, it would just be solving the standard F2L case and getting solved EO. ZBLS exists because you solve F2L minus one then orient all of the LL edges while solving the last pair, it is described as such on the wiki. What you described is just ZZ while also doing ZBLL for LL which no top cubers use ZZ, but they use ZB which includes ZBLS and it's purpose is to orient all of the LL edges which would be redundant if EO-cross/EO-line is used. I have linked both wiki pages that describe ZB and ZBLS in case you need to see what the method actually is and how EO-cross/EO-line are never mentioned.
 
I have been on here since 2016 and I don't think the wiki accurately reflects the nomenclature in common use.
For one, the actual method CFOP-ZB solvers use isn't even listed on the wiki for either ZB or ZBLS so what they use is neither of those.
They solve F2L pairs while observing edge orientation and for each pair try to either preserve or improve the edge orientation (by choosing different pair algos) such that by the final pair you don't even need to use ZBLS because all the edges are already oriented.

For most of the past 9 years, the term ZB was generally referring to the ZZ method while using full ZBLL for the last layer.
 
I have been on here since 2016 and I don't think the wiki accurately reflects the nomenclature in common use.
For one, the actual method CFOP-ZB solvers use isn't even listed on the wiki for either ZB or ZBLS so what they use is neither of those.
They solve F2L pairs while observing edge orientation and for each pair try to either preserve or improve the edge orientation (by choosing different pair algos) such that by the final pair you don't even need to use ZBLS because all the edges are already oriented.

For most of the past 9 years, the term ZB was generally referring to the ZZ method while using full ZBLL for the last layer.
It makes sense that top cubers would try to preserve any already oriented edges because that just makes the solve easier. If they knew an alg that preserved part of EO and an alg that didn't, I'm sure every top cuber would use the alg that preserved EO because otherwise they are just undoing something that they would need to fix again for no benefit. Yiheng influences his next F2L pairs while solving one, is he no longer doing what we call CFOP because he is making his next step easier? It's not listed on the wiki either, but it doesn't change the method. It doesn't make sense that you're saying that just because the try to make the next step easier it is no longer ZB, of course they would want to preserve any EO that they have it would be counterproductive not to. Just because it doesn't fit the textbook definition of the method doesn't mean it is no longer the same method, and making the rest of the solve easier is actually better, if they can preserve or improve EO then they should do that but it doesn't change the method they use it just means they are using a more advanced and situational version that applies in the moment. They wouldn't choose to force a dot ZBLS when solving 3rd pair if they had the option to improve EO because it would make the solve worse. They would choose a different alg that orients more edges to make the ZBLS easier and if their pair solutions end up solving all of EO then that is still ZB, it just makes the rest of the solve better.
 
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