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What do you want in a ZBLL alg trainer?

ProStar

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I'm thinking about creating an alg trainer for ZBLL, as I've been working on learning it. What would people want in an alg trainer that other trainers don't have?
Disclaimer: I'm not learning ZBLL and am not planning on it anytime soon

I'd say a complete list of all ZBLL algs, along with a description on how to recognize each one. Maybe split it up into sections and subsections. For example: have sections for H, Pi, S, AS, etc. and then have sub-sections like "One solved side" or "two matching bars" so that you can easily find the ZBLL you want.


Sorry if you were looking for a different type of ideas than I gave
 

Pyjam

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One thing I dislike with Roman's trainer: many "scrambles" are just "regular" algs with a silly orientation with a lot of B moves.
Sometimes, it gives anoying "scrambles" like: B U2 B2 U2 B' U B' U' B U2 B U2 B U2 B'
I would prefer inefficient algs, longer, but in <R,U,L,D,F>.
It supposes that a solver generates all these bad algs. It's a lot of work.
 

ottozing

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#1: Make it do everything this does - http://bestsiteever.ru/zbll/

#2: What Pyjam said. Make the scramble such that they don't give away info about the case you're getting

#3: One thing that I think would help me personally is LSLL scrambles where all edges are oriented. This way I can practice ZBLL recog/recall in the context of something that isn't a pure ZBLL session, but also not a normal solving session where ZBLL doesn't happen as often (rn the best thing that exists for this is doing LSLL scrambles and hoping you know the ZBLS or can do an inefficient ZBLS, which isn't a good way to practice at all)

Good luck with the trainer!
 

Tao Yu

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I'd like some kind of system where you could import/export a set of ZBLL algs as perhaps a txt file so that we could share different sets of ZBLL algs by different people. Maybe it could allow you to upload a set of algs and then you could edit it (add algs, replace algs, reorder algs etc) in the trainer and export so that other people can use it. I also think a lot of people would use a feature where you could just paste any ZBLL algs in a text box, and the trainer will automatically detect which case it is, and add the new alg as an alternative. Something like this would be way easier to use than a spreadsheet.

#1: Make it do everything this does - http://bestsiteever.ru/zbll/

#2: What Pyjam said. Make the scramble such that they don't give away info about the case you're getting

#3: One thing that I think would help me personally is LSLL scrambles where all edges are oriented. This way I can practice ZBLL recog/recall in the context of something that isn't a pure ZBLL session, but also not a normal solving session where ZBLL doesn't happen as often (rn the best thing that exists for this is doing LSLL scrambles and hoping you know the ZBLS or can do an inefficient ZBLS, which isn't a good way to practice at all)

Good luck with the trainer!
qqtimer has a ZZ last slot + last layer scrambler which I believe is random state. Maybe this does what you're looking for?
 

Aerma

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#3: One thing that I think would help me personally is LSLL scrambles where all edges are oriented. This way I can practice ZBLL recog/recall in the context of something that isn't a pure ZBLL session, but also not a normal solving session where ZBLL doesn't happen as often (rn the best thing that exists for this is doing LSLL scrambles and hoping you know the ZBLS or can do an inefficient ZBLS, which isn't a good way to practice at all)

Good luck with the trainer!
By this, do you mean giving you a LSLL such that once the F2L pair is solved, you would be left with a ZBLL case you selected?
For example, if you only selected the simple Sune ZBLL, you could be given a scramble such as U2 L U2 L' U' L U' L' R U' R' U R U' R' ?
Of course, the LS case would have to be simple enough that nobody would do it differently than intended, and obviously the scramble would be less obvious :p
 
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Aerma

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Update:
I'm working on making the trainer, but I don't know how to make a bunch of scrambles for each ZBLL case. I looked at the source code for Roman's trainer, but not all the ZBLL cases are in the scramble file??
Do any of you have any suggestions? I don't have access to CubeExplorer...
EDIT: So it seems the "scramble" algorithms in Roman's trainer file are actually algorithms to solve specific scrambles? Not sure how that works...
 
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Pyjam

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Yes, some "scrambles" are reverse algs with a rotation.
For example F' U' F U' B U2 B' R2 B' R2 B2 U2 B' is the "scramble" for R U2' R2' F2 R F2 R U2 R' U L' U L
That's what I complained about. I'd like real scrambles in <R,U,L,F,D>.
 

RyanP12

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If you don’t know what algs to use, use Tao Yu/Justin Taylor/Jabari Narrudin algs. You can find them from Tao Yu’s trainer with the rest of those algs.
 

Aerma

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sort by depth / alg length
Is this a feature you want to be added, or a suggestion? Could you clarify what you mean?

If you don’t know what algs to use, use Tao Yu/Justin Taylor/Jabari Narrudin algs. You can find them from Tao Yu’s trainer with the rest of those algs.
I'll be using Anthony Brooks' algs, and I'll use someone else's for Sune/Antisune.
 

Pyjam

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I don't understand. Why do you need a list of algs?
If the idea is to propose a solution (an alg for each case), you definitively need to use more sources.
 

GenTheThief

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As said before, it would be nice to have better scramble sequences.

When picking algs like in roman's trainer, display them like on algdb with all 4 sides visible instead of just two. It's really hard to figure out which cases I know because I don't use that 2 sided system.

Just like in roman's trainer, it will show you all of the algs that you've selected before it goes into random mode, to ensure that you get to see all of the cases before you start seeing duplicates. However, if you mess up a case, it would be nice to be able to say that you messed up and it would put it back into the list of cases that you haven't seen yet.
Also stats for each case, like average time for each set and fastest from each set (both ocll and coll groups).
 

Aerma

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As said before, it would be nice to have better scramble sequences.

When picking algs like in roman's trainer, display them like on algdb with all 4 sides visible instead of just two. It's really hard to figure out which cases I know because I don't use that 2 sided system.

Just like in roman's trainer, it will show you all of the algs that you've selected before it goes into random mode, to ensure that you get to see all of the cases before you start seeing duplicates. However, if you mess up a case, it would be nice to be able to say that you messed up and it would put it back into the list of cases that you haven't seen yet.
Also stats for each case, like average time for each set and fastest from each set (both ocll and coll groups).
I plan on having all of that :) and thanks for the stats suggestion, that certainly sounds useful!
 

Aerma

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Update on the trainer:
I've been working on it daily, and it's coming along really nicely! Right now I'm focusing on making it do everything that Roman's does before adding my own features. So far all of the selection screen is done excluding being able to expand each COLL subset into its ZBLLs and choosing specific ones to train, but I'll of course add that in before releasing the trainer. The timer screen right now is just a timer—no scrambles or any options—but that too will change.
Here is a sneak peek at the selection screen:


(also yes I know that the L OLL image is misaligned, I'll fix that)
 
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Maybe have some printable cheat sheets ? Also, maybe have the option to enter your own algorithm, kind of like on jperm.net. If you didn't yet decide on AS/S, try algdb.net. Keep up the good work, I wouldn't dream of making something like this ! I'll thank you when I learn full ZBLL !
 

Aerma

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Maybe have some printable cheat sheets ? Also, maybe have the option to enter your own algorithm, kind of like on jperm.net. If you didn't yet decide on AS/S, try algdb.net. Keep up the good work, I wouldn't dream of making something like this ! I'll thank you when I learn full ZBLL !
If you're looking for a printable alg sheet, I highly recommend Anthony Brook's ZBLL PDF. It doesn't have S/As algorithms on it though, so maybe just use algdb.net for that.
I do plan on letting users replace algorithms with their own :) I might even make it so it can check whether or not the algorithm actually solves the case.
Work on the trainer is going smoothly. I've been posting updates in my ZBLL Discord server, you can join to see if you like!
 
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